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#1
08-19-2007, 03:52 PM
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Live $600 NL, 10 handed, preflop decision with 88
I have about a $400 stack at this point and the PFR has me covered.
I'm in the big blind with 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG raises to $30 and four people call before it gets to me. I have seen UTG raise with middle to big pairs as well as hands like AT+ and KQ. Do you think I should shove all in here, or is it better to call and see a flop? 
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#2
08-19-2007, 03:59 PM
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Re: Live $600 NL, 10 handed, preflop decision with 88
shove is soooooooooooo bad its not funny. Call and take a flop, but it would be better with more money in front. I'm assuming that the whole table covers you.
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#4
08-19-2007, 04:36 PM
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Re: Live $600 NL, 10 handed, preflop decision with 88
A shove here is definitly +ev. There's $150 in the pot now, so if they fold 3/4 of the time you will make money even if you lose every hand when you are called.
They will fold 3/4 of the time. The only one you're worried about is UTG, because if anyone else had a big hand, they would've 3-bet. UTG will only call you wit AA, KK, and maybe QQ. But since he'll raise AT and KQ here, the odds are he doesn't have one of those hands. Even if he does, you're only a 3.6:1 dog. Still, calling might be higher in ev.
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#5
08-19-2007, 05:13 PM
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Re: Live $600 NL, 10 handed, preflop decision with 88
[ QUOTE ]
A shove here is definitly +ev. There's $150 in the pot now, so if they fold 3/4 of the time you will make money even if you lose every hand when you are called. They will fold 3/4 of the time. The only one you're worried about is UTG, because if anyone else had a big hand, they would've 3-bet. UTG will only call you wit AA, KK, and maybe QQ. But since he'll raise AT and KQ here, the odds are he doesn't have one of those hands. Even if he does, you're only a 3.6:1 dog. Still, calling might be higher in ev. [/ QUOTE ] Shoving is -ve. Sure they will fold most of the time, but when they call, you can be sure that they have you crushed. Calling for set value is much more profitable.
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#6
08-19-2007, 05:42 PM
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Re: Live $600 NL, 10 handed, preflop decision with 88
Call and play for set value.
Don't even put money in post flop if it's all cards lower than 8 because with that many to the flop, somebody will have an overpair higher than 8s, 2-pair, or a set to go along with all the draws that will come along for quite a few chips on the flop.
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#7
08-19-2007, 06:12 PM
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Re: Live $600 NL, 10 handed, preflop decision with 88
For people saying shoving is terrible, pokerstove gives my eights 45 % equity against the range of AT+, 77+ and KQ. Even with zero fold equity, jamming is +EV because of all the money in the pot. To be clear, UTG is a frequent preflop raiser.
Also, keep in mind this is live where most players are very loose. I'm not worried about big pairs except for UTG. But calling for set value might be better. With a $300 stack I definitely shove and with a full buy in I'd just call. In the middle here I wasn't sure.
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#8
08-19-2007, 06:57 PM
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Re: Live $600 NL, 10 handed, preflop decision with 88
stick to mtts
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#9
08-19-2007, 07:08 PM
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Re: Live $600 NL, 10 handed, preflop decision with 88
I like seeing a case for shoving, as my initial reaction would be to LOL at any thought of shoving here.
Still, I don't think you are folding everyone out here 3/4 of the time. Even if you don't run into a monster, I would suspect you get a lot of calls from 99-JJ from mid position.
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