wait til turn?

[bdaddy]

Very good live 30 game. 2 limpers(LP, TAG) to me and I raise
K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. 1 cold caller, SB calls. 5 to flop for 11sb.

Main villain in this hand is SB. He's young asian guy who's
pretty LAGgy.

Flop is
6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB leads into field. His range here is OESD, flush draw, pair/strt combos, set, straight,2 pair, 88, 1010.

Both limpers call, and I call. Terrible player behind me calls.

Turn is 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
SB bets, 2 limpers both call, and I raise to see what goes down. Good?

[GreywolfNYC]

I think you're one street late.

[vmacosta]

I'm no expert on what to do in 5-way pots, but I think generally waiting til the turn is nitty and suboptimal. You have an equity edge on the flop and no guarantees things will go the way you want them to on the turn, so i think you should raise now.

You also basically force sb to define his hand since he would be dumb not to 3-bet a set or a str8 but a lot of people won't 3-bet draws here cuz they wanna keep the fish in.

[Fnord]

I don't mind playing it either way. Nice turn card for you.

[lucid75]

raise flop.

[tessarji]

I often ridicule the 'wait till the turn' line, but this spot is not terrible for it. There's less fear of an overcard beating you, the pot is not huge, and you'll get to see the reactions of several players on the turn before deciding to raise.

Having said that, I'd still just raise the flop almost always.

[Milo]

Raise the flop.

[Captain R]

I like the turn. You cannot protect your hand, and you maximize the other players' mistakes (putting in 2.5 BB instead of 1 BB). The action is also purified, because you're not going to get 3-bet by something you beat here. On the flop, if you raise, and the betting gets raised/capped, are you going to raise the turn again?

You also get to see the action on the turn when all kinds of crappy cards will hit. Your pot equity also either goes way up or way down here, whereas on the flop you have marginal pot equity 5-way.

Finally, while you still can't protect against the gutshots, and the crappy A7-type two pair draws, all the players are making a mistake by putting in 2 BB on the turn with their draws. Or if you're lucky, they'll put in one and then fold.

So basically since you can't protect your hand, the only thing left to do is maximize the mistakes your opponents are making.

[bakku]

well played

[andyfox]

Good post. Irrespective of whether or not one agrees with it.

Most of the other posts in this thread, "raise the flop," or "one street too late," are, with respect guys, useless. How are we going to learn from somebody giving a one-liner without any explanation? Raise the flop: why? What advantage is there to doing that as opposed to waiting for the turn?