Playing a scary board (stud hi)

[JourneyAgain]

Just starting stud hi, and I felt like I applied a bunch of hold'em concepts that may or may not be relevant. No particular read on the villain.

Anyway, is the call on 3rd ok in early position? My cards are pretty live but I didn't know how to interpret the deuce brining it in for a full bet.

On 5th I didn't want to give villain a "free card" if he hadn't made his flush, so I took a "bet / fold" line that felt like a B/F on the turn in hold'em. Do those two ideas have similar application here, or elsewhere?

Partly I'm just not sure how often people will semi-bluff- or bluff-raise scary boards, especially at these stakes.

John


7 Card Stud High ($1/$2), Ante $0.20 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___completes
Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

4th Street - (5.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 7: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets

5th Street - (4.30 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises
Hero: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets___folds

Total pot: (6.30 BB - $12.60)

[Wahoo73]

First, welcome to stud, and second, if this is at FTP (which it looks like), I welcome you there as well.

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, is the call on 3rd ok in early position? My cards are pretty live but I didn't know how to interpret the deuce brining it in for a full bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Although bringing-in for the full amount is something I rarely do and is not widely advocated by stud "experts," I have found it to be more common at FTP than any other site I have played at. I suspect that the high ante/low BI/high completion ratio has something to do with this. At any rate, I normally interpret a full BI to mean that opponent has a pocket pair of TT or higher. Given the door cards in the hand you posted, I would probably put BI on buried Js or Ts. As far as your call on 3rd goes, I personally think it's okay, but I'd be ready to dump it quickly if just the Ace behind me reraises and there are no other callers besides the BI when the action returned to me. As it turned out, the completion gets called by two other players, neither of which is the Ace or one of the Queens, so the hand is four-way, which gives your three-flush good pot equity to start.

As for the other players calling the 3rd street completion, I have found in general at all stud sites that the callers will have either a three-flush, a medium to high three straight or a medium to high pair with a decent kicker. At the 1/2 level, the players who call with these hands may or may not be paying attention to whether their cards are live.

Your 4th street bet-out is IMO exactly the correct thing to do, as it represents your hand as trips or Ks over. The fact that Seat #1 calls is somewhat irrelevant as he is almost certainly far behind you, with at best either a lower pair or an inside straight draw to dead Queens. But Seat #5's call likely indicates either a diamond flush draw or a four-card straight.

I think your reasoning to bet-out on 5th street to see how the two remaining opponents react is sound. As I might expect, Seat #1 folds and Seat #5 raises. At this point, I have to give Seat #5 credit for either having made his flush or, at worst, having a combination four-flush/four-straight draw. I think in either case, folding is the correct play, as your only real chance to improve to a hand that you KNOW will win on the river is if you catch runner-runner cards that fill you to a boat or a flush.

IMO, your instincts, and hence your playing, were good in this hand. I look forward to playing with you.

[Roland]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd be ready to dump it quickly if just the Ace behind me reraises and there are no other callers besides the BI when the action returned to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

So it's 3-way, you're cards are live and you're getting 5:1 closing the action. Why not see 4th?

[Wahoo73]

For me, it's a close call as to whether or not I see 4th in the situation I described. If it was four-way, I'd definitely call on 3rd. I suppose whether I would call it in a three-way situation would depend on other intangibles. If I did call on 3rd, I most certainly would dump it on 4th if I was unimproved. However, in that scenario if I had caught the K on 4th street as actually occurred, the posted hand becomes playable but problematic...and I suspect most of us can agree that having playable but problematic hands is fun for analyzing here after the fact, but not what we necessarily like when actually playing. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Roland]

[ QUOTE ]
I suppose whether I would call it in a three-way situation would depend on other intangibles.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can kind of see folding if both of your opponents are solid I guess. But how likely is that at 1/2?

[ QUOTE ]
If I did call on 3rd, I most certainly would dump it on 4th if I was unimproved.

[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming they don't catch any scary stuff and I'm still last to act, I'm tossing in another bet I think. I agree it's a lot closer than on 3rd though.

[ QUOTE ]
...and I suspect most of us can agree that having playable but problematic hands is fun for analyzing here after the fact, but not what we necessarily like when actually playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Jeff76]

[ QUOTE ]
Partly I'm just not sure how often people will semi-bluff- or bluff-raise scary boards, especially at these stakes.

[/ QUOTE ]Some players will semi-bluff 5th with a 4flush to gain a free card on 6th. This way, they pay the same two bets as they would have to draw, but get an extra bet in if they hit on 6th.

Also, expect a lot of players to semi-bluff 4flushes on 4th, as often they are slight favorites or break even against a single pair and can buy the free card on 5th where they will now be behind.

I tend not to semi-bluff paired door cards though [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[JourneyAgain]

Heh, Jeff, do you mean that you'd take a different line on 5th?

John

[Jeff76]

No- I have no advice for the hand- I'll leave that to better players than myself. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

You just asked about semi-bluffing in stud, and raising with 4flushs for a free next card is one of the most common moves you'll see. That you paired your door card and he's raising anyway makes this more likely to be a made flush, IMHO, but I'm also not very good at reading stud hands [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Andy B]

Third's an easy call and I'd bet the max on fourth. I'm not a fan of betting and folding to a raise in general, but I think fifth street is a good time for it. If you were really sure of your customer, you might even check and fold, but I think you chose the better line against an unknown $1/2 player.

[RandomUser]

Diamonds are fairly dead. If you are worried about the made flush, I'd prefer to check/call on 5th and reevaluate on 6th.