Does your image change the way you play this hand? QQ overpair

SomethingClever · #1 08-09-2007, 04:46 PM

WSEX $100 NL.

I just sat down and right away started running and playing kinda bad. Lots of great starting hands, lots of whiffed flops and giving up. One hand I played pretty bad... I open AJ, it's like the third hand I've opened in a row. Get called by one of the blinds.

I check behind the TT8 flop, turn goes check/check, river brings a J. SB bets $1, I raise to $7, he raises to $18, I call like a moron.

Hand in question

The very next hand I get Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and open *again*. Two players cold-call.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($12)

I bet $11 pretty quick, the guy to my left minraises.

1) What's your standard line?
2) Given history, do you do anything different?

SilentNoise · #2 08-09-2007, 05:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I check behind the TT8 flop

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Isn't cbetting here pretty standard with AJ? And isn't a delayed cbet kinda standard if he checks to you on the turn again?

about the hand in question;
if my image is pretty bad i like 3betting.
if my image is tagish i usually call, and bet a blank turn card hard. if he raises then...then i usually fold i think?

No idea if thats good/bad

tannenj · #3 08-09-2007, 05:35 PM

1) go all in
2) go all in

SomethingClever · #4 08-09-2007, 05:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't cbetting here pretty standard with AJ? And isn't a delayed cbet kinda standard if he checks to you on the turn again?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, except when you keep raising and airballing the flop and c-betting and folding. You have to change the pattern when you're running like crap and not getting any respect.

SilentNoise · #5 08-09-2007, 06:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
1) go all in
2) go all in

[/ QUOTE ]

tannej: are there any flops where you dont put all your money in with AA after you get raised? If so..which?

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, except when you keep raising and airballing the flop and c-betting and folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

So do you still raise 22 utg when your image is bad like this? Do you think it is profitable to do so if you are only continuing if you flop a set? (my guess is no).

doesn't that mean its only still profitable to raise 22 utg with a bad image of giving up after cbetting alot IF you can still take the pot on some flops with cbets? (my guess is yes). and aren't there some flops which you can cbet against all villains no matter how bad your table image? like J42 or A52 or KT3 or 227 n stuff? Isn't TT8 one of them?

So basically...do you give up raising 22 utg when your image has turned really bad like you describe?

robert jordan · #6 08-09-2007, 06:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
1) go all in
2) go all in

[/ QUOTE ]

i think both are pretty good. player dependent i do the same here.

def see you gettin looked up by a lot in this situation.

tannenj · #7 08-09-2007, 06:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) go all in
2) go all in

[/ QUOTE ]

tannej: are there any flops where you dont put all your money in with AA after you get raised? If so..which?

[/ QUOTE ]

i assume you mean readless. KQJ, QJT, etc.

SilentNoise · #8 08-09-2007, 06:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i assume you mean readless. KQJ, QJT, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

aren't flops like 567 456 etc basically just as scary for the same reasons KQJ n whatever are? Because hands that are close together hit them hard? And aren't you letting people stack you pretty easily if they can just call with pairs/suited connectors and get it all in vs your overpairs all the time?

SomethingClever · #9 08-09-2007, 08:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So basically...do you give up raising 22 utg when your image has turned really bad like you describe?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I do. I might try minraising or even limping (the horror!) because I think playing the hand is +ev and those are usually cheaper ways to do it, but I probably give up on opening the weaker pairs in EP with a horrible image.

SilentNoise · #10 08-10-2007, 06:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
but I probably give up on opening the weaker pairs in EP with a horrible image.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your reasoning of why you'd wanna do this does make sense. but im pretty sure most would disagree. im not sure if i disagree or not. i still think its profitable to raise, even if you are only cbetting on the dryest of boards. i have no way to prove that though.