How to play smaller pocket pairs..

[turtle82]

Hi all!

I'm used to pretty loose aggresive live games of 2/5 and 5/10, and in those, I'm usually willing to call 4-5 times the bb, hoping to spike a set and double up. It's usually worked out fine for me, but recently i've been playing online, and a lot of times I flop my set, I don't get paid out nearly close to enough to justify calling a 4-5x raise.

so my question to you is.. how often do you play small pocket pairs, and how big of a raise do you call with them? Also.. at the live games, when i flop a set in earlier position, I tend to lead out into the raiser, which often results in getting raised and me felting him.. but online.. i often feel like an idiot after seeing everyone fold to me

Thanks!!

[Jkemp]

I think there was another thread similiar to this. Basically i anyways, like to feel out the table first, if your playin with alot of loose aggressive players, that raises everytime they have an ace in the hole, your usually fine calling a raise from them, except of course maybe a non-sense raise like an all in. Obviously with a small pocket pair your gonna be in a race, with a raise in front of you, calling is fine, and even if you don't spike a set, if high cards stay off the board your pp is maybe even good enough, and if you do spike it, well your in good position against them. In a position as was mentioned in another thread, where theres a raiser and a re-raiser, and a particularly tight table, your probably best muckin the small pp and savin to play another day. Alot of times instead of a flat call, i like to raise with a small pp, then if i get a caller i at least can limit down what they more likely have in there hands, generally a two high cards ace to ten, a-x, and somtimes someone will play suited connectors to a raise. Again , it depends on the style of the player you end up against. but usually in this position if they board comes out with like a 3-7-2 rainbow, your probably in good shape to keep fireing. though it can backfire if they slow played a bigger pocket pair. Sorry if any of this sounded confusing. peace.

[mvdgaag]

I think JKemp is giving some great advice, but also some bad advice.

If you go allin with a PP you are only called by better hands or you are flipping. This is -EV, even at loose tables.

If you have a raiser and a reraiser, most of the times you have to muck, like JKemp says, because you are not getting great odds and the betting is not closed. If you feel the original raiser is weak you can call for set value if he has enough behind (you are 7.5 to 1 to hit a set).

Raising instead of flatcalling preflop is too expensive since the original raiser will have a hand that beats you or you are 50/50 against, but it will be hard to play postflop. Even if it narrows down their range this information and these steals are not worth the extra losses. Of course sometimes it's ok to 3bet light with a small PP and if the stacks are deep enough the raise does not represent such a large part of the potential postflop pot.

Raising instead of limping is great (maybe JKemp meant this when he sayd raising instead of flatcalling). You have a chance to take the blinds and will not play your cards faceup against observant opponents (unless you limp a lot more hands, but that wouldn't be good). Also you'll build a pot, because when you hit a set you need to maximise profit (which can be quite hard).

Medium pockerpairs are great for floating since you often do it with the best hand and can get away if an A or K hits and you are getting more action.

[cynic757]

Stack sizes have a huge impact here, OP. Calling a tight short stacker's (20 BB for instance) 5xBB bet with a small PP is surely - EV.

[turtle82]

I agree, stack size is very important.. but at the tables i play, .25/.50, most people usually hav around the big buyin (50), and because I play 9 tables, its sometimes hard to tell who's tight or loose.

I guess my question is this.. usually i'll get like 55 or 66 in earlier position, so i'll limp in for 50 cents.. it'll go around the table and someone on the button (with a full stack) raises to 2.25. I almost always call, but after that, if i don't hit a set, i'm stuck. sometimes if the flop comes out raggy and the button bets weakly on the flop, i'll call him down. but even if i do hit a set, i usually don't get enough value out of it.

so what should i do there!! call or fold??? ;(

thanks guys

[mvdgaag]

Limp/calling and hitting a set is very transparant to most villains. At 6max, even UTG you can raise it PF if you don't expect a reraise or calls from shortstacks very often. You can also take it down with a cbet. If you hit your set, position is not as important as with drawing hands or one pair hands.

[TexRef]

I like limp calling with small pairs... If you flop your set, try to take someone to the cleaners! If not, they are normally pretty easy to get away from.

Just understand that you are about 8-to-1 to hit your set and that you need to be able to get paid off more than 8 times the amount you are calling PF in order to make set mining profitable for you.

[mvdgaag]

Yes, it's 7.5 to 1 or 1 in 8.5 times. and you will need to win 8.5 times your original investment (your investment the time you hit the set also counts) on average.

This original investment is the 'standard raise' most of the time, unless you are in a very passive game. If you make the raise yourself you have more ways to win (picking up the blinds, picking up the pot with a cbet, hitting your set). Also you don't risk hitting your set in an unraised pot, where it's hard to make a big win out of it. If you just limp/call you give up a lot of stealing equity and your hand has lower implied odds, because it's obvious to observant players. Limping is not cheaper, because you are either calling a small bet or trying to make a big pot out of a few blinds on the flop, which IMO is very hard.

[turtle82]

great point mvdgaag, i think ill try to open more hands with a raise with pp's, see if i can isolate opponents, and take down pots with c-bets. i agree on your point about limping.. also sometimes i limp with a pp, and i'll hit my set on the flop, but it will be something like 5 7 8, and i'm afraid of risking my stack without boating up.

also what i'm scared of is raising too often with 55 and seeing flops like 8 10 J, and not being able to take it down. I dont want to bleed off too many chips 2.25 dollars at a time.

thanks for all your input btw

[Jkemp]

about mydgaag response my comment about raising with a small pp, i didn'r really mean re-raise when theres already a raise i just meant,i somtimes raise from the originall bb value in order to get a better feel for wat the other players might have, and also will be more likely they check to me, to see wat i have, since i opened up a raise, then if i missed my set i can check also and not pay to see another card for the most part. This usually only works when your in a late position though.