KK flops top set, death card on the turn

[chh]

Daily 15k (10 min lvls, 10+1)

Villain is very successful at these lower limits and definitely the toughest player at the table (TAGish).

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero (t4760)
BB (t1315)
UTG (t1270)
UTG+1 (t890)
MP1 (t2965)
MP2 (t4060)
MP3 (t1865)
CO (t1395)
Button (t2530)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K, K.
3 folds, MP2 calls t50, MP3 calls t50, 2 folds, Hero raises to t250, 1 fold, MP2 calls t200, MP3 calls t200.

Flop: (t800) K, T, Q (3 players)
Hero bets t500, MP2 calls t500, MP3 folds.

Turn: (t1800) A (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t1000, Hero calls t1000.

River: (t3800) 6 (2 players)[
Hero checks, MP2 bets t2310 (All-In), Hero ??

Should I bet more on the flop here? I mean obv I'm giving too good odds to some draws, but e.g. the flush might make his hand and still be 2nd best.
On the turn I'm obv just calling looking for the board to pair.
On the river... Can I ever expect a thinking opponent to be pushing with less than a jack? He was taking a little time but that might be because of the complexity of the board.

fire away

[topherh82]

coming from the small blind you need to make a larger raise preflop. As soon as one person calls your raise, everyone else is coming along no matter what. make it like 300-350 or so. make a bigger bet on the flop

[AC-Cobra]

If your reasoning for calling on the turn is for the board to pair (and I believe this is your only way out) then you dont have even close to the odds. Villain is offering you 2.8-1 odds. You have 10 outs here and 46 cards not seen. Giving you just over 4-1 chances of hitting your hand. For this reason, Im folding the turn (grudgingly but still am).

[ QUOTE ]
coming from the small blind you need to make a larger raise preflop. As soon as one person calls your raise, everyone else is coming along no matter what. make it like 300-350 or so. make a bigger bet on the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally I belive your PF raise is fine (standard PF raise of 3BB + 2 limpers). Anywhere between 250-350 is fine I think. I would also bet the flop bigger with this many opponents, probably around 650/700.

[BlueEcho]

On the flop I bet 600 but I don't think it changes much really.

Since TT,QQ,AQ,KQ,KT, and QT are all still in villians range I call the river. I'm not as worried about a flush because the Ad is out so I'm mostly worried about the J. But not enough to fold ever.

Also I like check/calling down so as to make sure villian bets his entire range.

[typically]

[ QUOTE ]
If your reasoning for calling on the turn is for the board to pair (and I believe this is your only way out) then you dont have even close to the odds. Villain is offering you 2.8-1 odds. You have 10 outs here and 46 cards not seen. Giving you just over 4-1 chances of hitting your hand. For this reason, Im folding the turn (grudgingly but still am).


[/ QUOTE ]

Implied odds means you're playing for stacks here... so this makes it much closer imo.

This is tough; I don't think you're giving away odds with the flop bet, 600 may be a bit better, but this is fine. As you say the Ad is a death card. I like folding the river, it's a nice disciplined move and the correct one.

[BlueEcho]

[ QUOTE ]
coming from the small blind you need to make a larger raise preflop. As soon as one person calls your raise, everyone else is coming along no matter what. make it like 300-350 or so. make a bigger bet on the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

So let me get this straight. You are raising to 300-350 so you don't get any callers? That seems kinda lame since you have the 2nd best starting hand and obviously want to get some value from it. Overbetting pf here will most of the time only win you the blinds. Your KK hand has so much more value in it that you can't be afraid to play it post flop. If you are worried about some shmuck calling you with Ax and an ace flopping take note that you are a favorite. These means you gain long term + equity by that shmuck calling you.

[Dave D]

PF raise is fine. Maybe another 50 because you're OOP.

Flop is fine, I might bet 600 but as someone else said it doesn't change much.

Turn call is probably fine, but it's close. I think you still do get called by villian a lot of the time on the river if it pairs. But you say he's a good player so maybe you don't have implied odds. I'm not used to playing against good players,

As played, fold river. Have to, everything beats you. It sucks, but whatever.

[chh]

well ofc a lot of cards are still in his range, but the question is would he bet them in the face of this board when I could easily be c/c with a J that I will never fold with such great odds.

My pf raise is obviously aimed at not winning the pot right away but rather at hopefully getting it headsup against the small stack fish.

On balance, do you really think I'm better off folding here? I've made a lot of good calls in my life but never a good laydown, if you get what I mean [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[tomek322]

Why not bet the turn? If he shoves you can basically safely muck.

[JammyDodga]

anyone pushing the flop here?

I know its an overbet but theres like 19 cards here that will scare the bejeesus out of you if the hit (4 nines, 4 aces, 4 jacks, + 7 diamonds) Although they might not all beat you, you wont be able to know that, and against 19 cards twice I think you are an underdog.

Also, with the overbet you might get called by a few hands that you are well ahead of.

Keep it safe and simple I reckon.