Folding top pair

Schwatt · #1 08-07-2007, 12:41 AM

I have figured out one of my biggest money drainers in NL is over-valueing TP/GK type hands. Here are some laydowns that I am unsure of:

Villian is 30/10/3 over ~20 hands

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

UTG ($175.35)
MP ($269.50)
Hero ($89.10)
SB ($102.40)
BB ($99.35)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to $4, SB calls $3.50, 1 fold.

Flop: ($9) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $5, SB calls $5.

Turn: ($19) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $12, SB raises to $35, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $66

Results in white below: 
No showdown. SB wins $66. 

Villian is an Uber-nit 10/7/2

I am losing to AK and AJ, tied with AQ, villian probably wouldnt even raise AT pf here. I called flop because that seems to be the standard play is this situatio in NL(WA/WB), but I am thinking I should have raised this flop?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Hero ($102)
UTG ($111)
UTG+1 ($108.25)
MP1 ($49.45)
MP2 ($150.05)
CO ($75.20)
Button ($110.40)
SB ($43.50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
5 folds, Button raises to $4, 1 fold, Hero calls $3.

Flop: ($8.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $7, Hero calls $7.

Turn: ($22.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $18, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $40.50

Villian is 52/16/1 over ~20 hands
I really hate the minraise, REALLY hate it. I feel so weaksauce in this hand.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

BB ($181.10)
UTG ($35.75)
UTG+1 ($84.10)
MP1 ($99)
MP2 ($55.90)
MP3 ($95)
Hero ($100.30)
Button ($211.90)
SB ($19.90)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls $1, 1 fold, Hero raises to $4, 3 folds, MP2 calls $3.

Flop: ($9.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets $5, MP2 raises to $10, Hero calls $5.

Turn: ($29.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 bets $10, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $39.50

justin · #2 08-07-2007, 01:22 AM

I kinda dislike all the hands.

hand 1 your bets are so small they are begging to be raised on a board thats pretty drawy.

hand2 I guess hes real nitty so call preflop isnt terrible. You do not want to raise this flop for the same reason that you should call this turn. You have underplayed your hand, guy raised button, and most of nits continution bet ferrociously let him try and throw another barrel with kk, qq,tt, and worse A. As for river and third barrel you gotta play poker but most nits wont have it in them an nl 100 to 3 barrel bluff this board as its pretty obvious your sd bound.

hand 3 I cant fold to this guy but if you have to fold to him then why not check the flop. Let him try and barrel you with his 4 outer or his trips. His range is huge get to SD.

jstill · #3 08-07-2007, 10:21 AM

hand 1 id bet a bit more on the flop/turn as well, I dont mind folding to the cr but cking and calling a bet on the river is a decent line also (any thoughts there?) just becuz this villain is pretty aggro and stacking off here and folding to a turn cr kinda sucks (his af is high given hes calling so much preflop).

hand 2 u have underplayed ur hand u may need to peel another street, not sure if i cr the flop i probably wouldnt here but I dont think u should rule out worse Aces raising otb just becuz the guys a nit. These are the guys that open limp all their pairs, doesnt mean his 7% isnt mostly coming from raising otb a bit looser and with premium hands everywhere else.

3 I like the idea of cking the flop and do it at times, but if the villain isnt an idiot I think people see through it like always and probably bet a little smaller for u than u would urself when ahead, though it expands his range to have more air ect.

Although I feel this is a place in NL even solid players have no any balance (Shania goes unsatisfied if u will), they only ck with monsters here or hands that want to induce a bluff/ control pot size so they still want to showdown ie they never ck and fold so villain can play better against us when we ck (and maybe should actually be less likely to bluff when we ck than when we bet since we never ck with worthless hands).

as played id call the turn and probably fold to a river shove finally giving him credit for Qx or 88 (most people wotn 3 barrel bluff this board for the rest of their stack after u call the flop cr and turn half pot, theres also no fd hands he ll have no SD value with and will need to shove).

nickg1532 · #4 08-07-2007, 10:43 AM

hand 1 is fine imo. though like others have said, you could bet a bit more.

hand 2 is tough. if he were just a bit less nitty i would 3 bet pf, but i think a call is ok vs. him. turn is close imo. i actually think a fold is ok, though i can see an argument for calling as the last money you put in the pot.

hand 3 i would call the turn (would have folded to a big bet though). i also call another small bet on the river, and probably fold if he bets it big.