Debate Time: Did my opponent play the flop well?

Ribbo · #1 08-02-2007, 05:04 PM

Me personally, i'm a HUGE fan of never bluffing a dry sidepot.
If I know one guy is all in with aces and I can't beat those aces, I wont try to build a sidepot.

So my question is this. Was my opponents play here on the flop good or bad?
http://www.pokerhand.org/?1327067
The outcome is predictable of course. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

tvta · #2 08-02-2007, 05:14 PM

if he gives you a solid chance to fold (for whatever reason) it is a correct bet i think. he is freerolling on the poor bastard with aces.

Silent A · #3 08-02-2007, 05:16 PM

I think it's a common mistake but not really anything to get frustrated by.

There's something about the idea of a "free draw" that makes people do this. I've done it myself on occasion, only to realize the pointlessness of it about 1 second after betting.

tvta · #4 08-02-2007, 05:20 PM

ive been in alot of hands like this and i really do think there is equity in betting a nothing side pot in some situations. but this is so hard to analyze in the eyes of someone other than the person playing the hand. fold equity can be very debatable.

Silent A · #5 08-02-2007, 05:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
if he gives you a solid chance to fold (for whatever reason) it is a correct bet i think. he is freerolling on the poor bastard with aces.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is that he has literally nothing and just about everything that could hit his hand on the turn gives him the nuts.

The only argument I can think of for betting is to get Ribbo to fold a hand that could bluff Zerberus666 on the turn/river.

It would be different if Zerberus666 had lots non-nut draws that could beat a big pair but not much else.

donkeykong2 · #6 08-02-2007, 05:29 PM

hmm his equity is slightly better hu against the aces +5% or a little more and if you call him here he s usually no worse than 50% in the side pot. i dont know if there is a decent chance you will try to bet him out on the turn his move is probably ok.

tvta · #7 08-02-2007, 05:37 PM

Silent, i see your point. if villian is drawing to the nuts, why chase them out of the pot? owell, i think that the villian was simply not thinking and just wanted to bet out with 9 high.

Exitonly · #8 08-02-2007, 05:43 PM

With his actual hand it was borderline, but him getting HU does help him.

6789 hand - 48.65% equity 3 way
6789 hand - 54.02% equity heads up vs aces

and if you change the 9d to 5h..

5678 - 51.53% equity 3 way
5678 - 57.44% equity heads up vs aces.

So yea, if he's reasonably sure you can fold, there is certainly some value in betting into a dry side pot.

edit: getting you to fold gains him like $11.

Silent A · #9 08-02-2007, 05:52 PM

O yeah, I forgot about back door flush draws. I'm pretty sure that's where the value of getting Ribbo to fold comes from.

Edit: of course the benefits of risking $92 to pick up $11 in equity is another matter, but Zerberus666 has such a big draw that it's unlikely to be a problem here.

Ribbo · #10 08-02-2007, 06:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Silent, i see your point. if villian is drawing to the nuts, why chase them out of the pot? owell, i think that the villian was simply not thinking and just wanted to bet out with 9 high.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's my thought as well. If they guy improves to beat aces, then he just absolutely HAS to have me beat also. So why make me fold? Surely he needs someone to pay him off once he hits, else why call preflop?