NL200: How do you play this set OOP?

Mr_Donktastic · #1 07-24-2007, 09:57 AM

UTG is a bit of a maniac, UTG+1 is slightly loose passive (like 20/6). Both bad players.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

MP3 ($40)
CO ($248.35)
Button ($248.30)
Hero ($504.90)
BB ($192)
UTG ($76.15)
UTG+1 ($284.80)
MP1 ($181.60)
MP2 ($174.40)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $2, UTG+1 raises to $8, 5 folds, Hero calls $7, 1 fold, UTG raises to $14, UTG+1 calls $6, Hero calls $6.

Standard. I will fold 55 from the SB alot but not against an EP raiser that I know has a good hand and a deepish stack. Plus UTG is BAD and will come along always. UTGs limp/minrr is awesome.

Flop: ($44) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks.

Thought for sure UTG would put in most or all of his stack here.

Turn: ($44) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $36, UTG calls $36, UTG+1 calls $36.

Gotta bet now. 2 callers...niiiice.

River: ($152) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero?

Bets ~$130? Hero pushes? Hero tries for a c/r?

UTG has like <$30 behind and UTG+1 has ~$230.

Kos13 · #2 07-24-2007, 10:03 AM

Maybe this is a bit too FPS, but this looks like a perfect situation for a river c/r. Your hand is well disguised, and a river check makes it look like you were just hoping to buy it with nothing on the turn. If you check, UTG is probably shoving, and if UTG+1 calls, you can come over the top and pick up the dead monies.

CazicT · #3 07-24-2007, 10:11 AM

Call me paranoid, but I don't like the river much. I put UTG on AA or KK initially. I guess maybe if he's a maniac he might have something else.

Of course there's no turning back now, so i'd think i'd bet the 130. Pushing seems too strong. If he has AK, he is fairly likely to push over you anyway, if he has less, then maybe he'd be too scared to call a push.

Of course we're talking about bad players, so a push probably wouldn't bee that bad either really. You figure UTG+1 must have an ace and bad players love aces...

I guess that's the good thing about bad players, no matter what you do, they give you their money.... [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Mr_Donktastic · #4 07-24-2007, 10:19 AM

River is a mixed bag imo.

UTG prob has QQ+ but he has little money left so meh.

I'm more concerned about getting $$$ from UTG+1, and for that the river could be good if he has AK, KJ, etc.

CazicT · #5 07-24-2007, 10:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
River is a mixed bag imo.

UTG prob has QQ+ but he has little money left so meh.

I'm more concerned about getting $$$ from UTG+1, and for that the river could be good if he has AK, KJ, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very true, if we are lucky we will be using UTG+1's money to freeroll against UTG and then some. But I shouldn't be so pessimistic, if they're both bad, we probably will scoop the whole pot.

Kos13 · #6 07-24-2007, 10:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
River is a mixed bag imo.

UTG prob has QQ+ but he has little money left so meh.

I'm more concerned about getting $$$ from UTG+1, and for that the river could be good if he has AK, KJ, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless UTG checks (which would be really, really weird), it seems like checking the river basically gives you position here...UTG+1 is about to be stuck because he's going to have to call the $30. If he folds, he obviously wasn't going to pay off your $130 bet.

Maybe I'm just playing like [censored], but I don't think you could draw up a better example for a river c/r. The fact that UTG has so little left (after his limp/min-raise) means he's shoving here like 99.9% of the time. That obviously forces UTG+1 to call with a lot of hands, and then you can come over the top.

CazicT · #7 07-24-2007, 10:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
River is a mixed bag imo.

UTG prob has QQ+ but he has little money left so meh.

I'm more concerned about getting $$$ from UTG+1, and for that the river could be good if he has AK, KJ, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless UTG checks (which would be really, really weird), it seems like checking the river basically gives you position here...UTG+1 is about to be stuck because he's going to have to call the $30. If he folds, he obviously wasn't going to pay off your $130 bet.

Maybe I'm just playing like [censored], but I don't think you could draw up a better example for a river c/r. The fact that UTG has so little left (after his limp/min-raise) means he's shoving here like 99.9% of the time. That obviously forces UTG+1 to call with a lot of hands, and then you can come over the top.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're mostly correct, except if UTG has QQ, which is one of the hands we hope he has, he could check. And if UTG+1 has AQ or something he might decide to check too. I think most of the time one of the two will bet, but usually don't like to take my chances.

Plus if it goes bet call, and then we push over the top, it might seem stronger to UTG+1 (our main concern) and he might get away from an ace.

Mr_Donktastic · #8 07-24-2007, 10:36 AM

You may be right about the c/r, however...

C/Ring looked attractive to me at the time but what I really didn't want to happen was have UTG bet $30 (almost a certainty imo), and have UTG+1 flat call and fold to my c/r.

He is bad but a c/r there would show alot of strength and he could fold all but the best hands (lets say he would only call a big c/r with 2 pr or better). Plus UTGs river bet would be so small...$30, what would I c/r too? I'd rather he had like $60 left to make the raise size bigger.

One of the main Qs in my mind is if are there hands that UTG+1 would call a straight $130 bet with but fold to a c/r of the same size?

Whatdya think?

geoncic · #9 07-24-2007, 10:52 AM

bet the pot

Kos13 · #10 07-24-2007, 11:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
One of the main Qs in my mind is if are there hands that UTG+1 would call a straight $130 bet with but fold to a c/r of the same size?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is obviously the key. Does AQ really call $130 on the river? I agree that AQ is almost certainly folding if you c/r $100 more, but is AQ calling if you lead out? If so, then leading out is probably good...I think it's pretty much 100% read dependent, though.