NL50 fire 3rd barrel or hope for showdown value?

[zwacke]

No reads at this point.

Titan No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25/$0.50BB (Titan HH Converter by Kreatief)

CO ($38.60)
Button ($60.75) (Hero)
SB ($53.70)
BB ($19.44)
MP3 ($55.89)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
MP3 calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to 2.5</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls $2.00,

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ( $5.75 )
<font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets $1.50</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to 6.0</font>, MP3 calls $4.50,

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ( $17.75 )
MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $12.00</font>, MP3 calls $12.00,

River: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ( $41.75 )
MP3 checks,

As villain donks on flop i put him on a draw. I raise any donk when im preflop aggressor on the flop anyway. As he calls turn and checks river im pretty sure he has neither the 9 or the J and the board is very scary (the reason i fired on turn as well).
I know this far the hand was a bit maniac style. But consider you are at the river now. Do you like pushing as it is +EV if villain folds a bit less than 50% of the time (and he will probably do so if he doesnt have the straight or boat) or do you expect to have some showdownvalue with A high against a busted flush draw and also avoid risking a full stack bluff...?

[hunt1897]

As played, bet 3/4 pot. No showdown value here. IMO.

[orig!naL]

what is your thinking here? fold preflop. If you're not going to fold this preflop, fold on the flop.

as played, check the river. You're only going to get called by hands that beat you anyway... considering he's called 2 raises now, I doubt you have a ton of fold equity on the river.

[mason55]

[ QUOTE ]
what is your thinking here? fold preflop.


[/ QUOTE ]

what? no. suited ace from the bn 5 handed? are you kidding?

[ QUOTE ]

as played, check the river. You're only going to get called by hands that beat you anyway...

[/ QUOTE ]

A river shove is not for value....

[zwacke]

my pfr is not &gt;19 for folding suited Aces on the button preflop.

My thinking on the river is that i dont even need 50% FE to make a push +EV, and i now like a 3/4psb even better now, as it looks more commiting. I actually put him on a flush draw and therefor hoped to split with any Ahxh and take the pot against any xhyh with x,y, not being a 8 or a T. Is this thought too wrong?

[casa82]

[ QUOTE ]
my pfr is not &gt;19 for folding suited Aces on the button preflop.

My thinking on the river is that i dont even need 50% FE to make a push +EV, and i now like a 3/4psb even better now, as it looks more commiting. I actually put him on a flush draw and therefor hoped to split with any Ahxh and take the pot against any xhyh with x,y, not being a 8 or a T. Is this thought too wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi I am pretty new to this forum, and this is the first time I give my opinion about a game situation.

I play the same limits as you do. My first thougt was, "how can he play the hand, like he played it, without having any read on the Villain?" I don't think it is wise to play big pots, with marginal hands, against a player you no nothing about.


If Villain is a thinking player he would not call your potsized turn bet on only a draw. So you push will probably called by a thinking player, unless he thinks you rivered a boat (but he problably hasn't any read on you as well because one of you just sat down).

If Villain is a complete donk, putting him on a flush draw might not be the right thing. In my (little) experience, putting a donk on a (small) range of hands is nearly impossible. It's conceivable he has a made hand. And because he is a donk he might call you down with only a pair. And this will turn out to be one of those 'I can't believe he called me with only a ...'- type of hands.

Basicly what I am trying to make clear is this:
[ QUOTE ]
I actually put him on a flush draw

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't put him on a flush draw not nowing anything about your villian. There for i think your thougts aren't correct.

Do my ideas make any sence?

[SirFelixCat]

Welcome to the forum!

Grunch...

I like the raise preflop. I do this every day and twice on Sundays. Suited A, 5 handed on the button? You betcha!

As played, I just don't see villain not calling the river here, so I think you have very little FE. If you're called, you are losing, plain and simple.

I can see why you put him on a draw, but even IP, vs an unknown, when he still calls the turn bet, I think it's time to give up. It may work, pushing here, but I just don't see him folding enough to make this viable.

Personally, vs an unknown, even with that pathetic flop bet, I muck on the flop. There are times that I'll raise a donk bet like this, but it's not a board that is super coordinated like this one is. Just find a better spot. You got caught, meh, no biggie.

[zwacke]

yeah, i chose to give up and he really had the flush draw. Unfortunately he showed 8h5h for bottom two -_- should have barreled as i intented to, but well, he might even call with bottom pair oO

[tiger_hall]

fold pre flop... u have A2.. wow its suited and looks brilliant and your on the button lol... he makes a donk bet on flop because as you said [ QUOTE ]
I raise any donk when im preflop aggressor on the flop anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

[mason55]

i don't understand why people keep saying to fold A2s on the button after a limper. A2s should be in the middle of your raising range after a limper on the button, not even close to the bottom. i'm curious what peoples VPIP/PFR on the button and their attempt to steal is (for those saying to fold this)


folding this isn't going to make you a losing player or anything but saying that a fold is standard or recommended is nuts.