pot limit specific scenario - my mistake, i think

[ijustliketoplay]

£1 £2 pot limit game in London. Im in the SB in a multi way limped pot with 10 5. Flop comes 10, 10, A. I lead just under pot and villain (a loose guy in MP) is the only player to call.

Turn is a Q. I lead about 3/4 pot again and the loose player raises. I call.

River is a 5. There is about £165 in the pot at this stage and i have about 225 behind. Villain has roughly the same. I am 99% sure i have the best hand and 100% sure he will bet, so i check.

Villain throws in his whole stack. This appears to be common in this game and the dealer is given the responsibility to count the bet and return the chips that are over the pot size. This is where i make the mistake. At the same time the dealer announces the size of the pot (i.e '165 to call') i shove all of my stack in the middle. I say nothing but my intention was to go all in.

The villain flips over AQ (!) and i think he's called so i flip over my boat. Then the dealer starts giving him back his last £60 or so. So i ask him why and he says when he called out the pot size and i just put my chips in it stood as a call.

This is obviously a pot limit specific problem and i normally play no limit. I didnt argue much because i realised i didnt state all in. I was also feeling a bit stupid - i know i should have waited and taken more time. So save the 'protect your hand type lectures' - i know i should have made sure of the situation and wont be making that mistake again...

But i wasn't quite sure the dealer handled this properly because i dont play enough pot limit to have seen this situation before. Someone else said to me later that if chips cross the line and they go into the size of the pot, they play. Therefore my bet was a raise etc

Anyone else agree?

[Vidocq]

A bit of a gray area, but usually if it is multiple chips (i.e. the one chip rule does not apply) that would be a raise. Saying something removes the ambiguity.

London can be very nitty on stuff like this so it is always better to say what you are doing.

[Torello]

Similar situations come up all the time in the spread limit game I play. The max bet is $200, and people routinely put in more than they are allowed. For example one player has $220 in front of them and they push it all in, the other player pushes in $300 and flips over the nuts, what's the action? I'm no dealer or floorman, but I think technically it's a bet of $200 and a call, and the first player keeps their extra $20. However the dealers usually but not always just let all the money play and arguments are rare.

This happens so frequently at this game that I account for it. If there's any possible confusion I either just state my action, or wait for the dealer to count the chips, even asking for a count if the dealer isn't doing it. I'm not embarrassed to say raise $200 or raise all-in when it later turns out that my action is moot because the player was already all-in.

[jba]

why does it matter if you raised or called? it sounds like you turned over your hand before villain ever called your maybe raise?

[AngusThermopyle]

[ QUOTE ]
Someone else said to me later that if chips cross the line and they go into the size of the pot, they play. Therefore my bet was a raise etc

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I would consider it a raise.

[ QUOTE ]
and i think he's called so i flip over my boat.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, he did not call your raise. You experienced premature flipulation, and it cost you £60.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I could agree that it was a raise, and also that there was no call. Premature flipulation sounds about right.


Al

[Phat Mack]

You made a legal raise, but villain had no obligation to call. It might have been better if you had allowed the dealer to make the pot right by returning villain's chips before you took any action. The best way to avoid these situations is to slow it down a bit.

The only way dealer could deny your raise would be by invoking the chip rule. For example, if it was 165 to you and you shoved in two 100 chips.

[marty_palin]

Yeah why do it all so quickly, sounds like terrible judgement to me. But I guess you dont need me to tell you...

I've played PL and I just accpet the game goes a lot slower as most of the time thats all we are doing, counting out the pot for the next bet

[ijustliketoplay]

agree. i definitely flipped too soon. but the reason i flipped was because my opponent had already flipped and showed his hand. so it was like an automatic response.

i guess im just too used to no limit. would normally play that but this pot limit game is quite juicy. just gonna have to slow it down next time.