Complete list of CEO Poker tour Events and exact juice paid,,,

doublejoker · #1 07-22-2007, 01:42 AM

Here is the complete list of CEO Poker Tour events run so far and the amount of juice taken from each. If you participated in any of these events you may have grounds to get part of your entry fee refunded....In each case the advertised fee (for example $500 + 50, or $1,00 + 75) was not the actual amount that was charged to the player.

There is a clear pattern here of overcharging the player and misrepresentation of the buyin vs. what actually wound up in the prizepool for each event.

Taj mahal May 19

BUY-IN $500 + 50 $550

Prizepool $116,100
Entires: 258

258 x $450 = $116,100

$450 of each players $550 went into the Prizepool.

Each Player paid $450 + $100 (20% juice)

10% front end 10% more backend

May 20th 163 entires at $550

Total Prizepool $73,350

163 x $450 = $73,350

Again the players were charged $450 + $100 (20% juice)

May 21 138 entries at $550

Total Prizepool $62,100

138 x 450 = $62,100

Three tournaments where players paid $450 plus $100 juice (20%)

Next was the May 22 $1625 buyin

77 Entries

Prizepool of $105,875

This tourney was a $1375 + $250 juice. (16.67% juice)

8.33% up front
8.33% backend

May 25

Buy in $5000 + $200

Entries 45

Prizepool $155,200

Equates to 3450 +1750 juice (this one Maria claims was not really 45 players as reported)

Palms CEO Series

October 23, 2006

Buy-In $1,500 + $300
Prize Pool $40,105
Entries 31

$1293 of $1800 per player went into the prizepool.

$1293 + 507 juice (28.16%)

October 24,2006

Buy-In $1,500 + $300
Prize Pool $35,740
Entries 28

This time $1275 from each player went to the prizepool

$1275 + 525 juice (29.16%)

October 25,2006

Buy-In $1,500 + $300
Prize Pool $29,920
Entries 24

$1246 + 564 juice (31.3% juice)

October 26 2006

$5,000 buyin

21 entries

Prizepool of $117,375

Apparently $12,375 of the $43,953 taken out in juice was added to this prizepool.

The actual juice was in effect the about 72% of the numbers reported above or still well over 20% for each tournament.

Venetian CEO Series

July 2, 2007

Buy in $500 + 50

Prize Pool $155,610
Entries 342

Actual entry was $455 + $95 (19% juice) 10% up front 9% off the back end

July 3,2007

Buy-In $500 + $50
Prize Pool $159,250
Entries 350

Same $455+ 95 juice (19%)

July 4th, 2007

Buy-In $500 + $50
Prize Pool $144,235
Entries 317

same $455 + 95 (19% juice)

July 5, 2007

Buy-In $500 + $50
Prize Pool $161,525
Entries 355

Same $455+ 95 juice (19%)

July 6, 2007

Buy-In $1,000 + $75
Prize Pool $189,280
Entries 208

Actual fee: $910 + $165 (16.5% juice) 7.5% up front plus 9% backend.

July 7, 2007

Buy-In $1,000 + $75
Prize Pool $196,563
Entries 216

Same $910 + 165 (16.5%)

July 8, 2007

Buy-In $1,000 + $75
Prize Pool $158,339
Entries 174

Same $910 + 165 (16.5%)

July 9, 2007

Buy-In $2,500 + $100
Prize Pool $503,100
Entries 234

Actual buyin: $2150 plus $450 (18% juice)

4% to Venetian
6% to CEO Tour
3% to Venetian staff
5% to CEO Charity Component

Professionalpoker · #2 07-22-2007, 04:10 AM

I didn't play in any of the events but I would suggest that someone that did should summarize what has been discovered in a very business like and purely factual presentation. Send this letter to all past and future CEO event poker room managers, casino managers and the gaming commissions.

doublejoker · #3 07-22-2007, 12:52 PM

It's amazing that they got away with this for so long...

ncpokeresq · #4 07-22-2007, 04:18 PM

At the risk of getting involved in the dealer toke threads, there is a difference between juice and withholding for staff/dealer tokes. It is reasonably standard where an entry fee is shown that the toke amount comes out of the separate prize pool. The key is that the complete amount is disclosed in writing BEFORE the entry is made. If people want to pay excessive juice, as they did for the WSOP, then that is there choice.
Can you break down the other events with regard to what amounts went where as you did for the Venetian.
So there is no mistake, I would not play one of these events because that juice is absurd, but I sat out WSOP events for the same reason.

grando · #5 07-22-2007, 04:18 PM

why the hell would you quote that?

wow people are retarded

doublejoker · #6 07-22-2007, 05:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
why the hell would you quote that?

wow people are retarded

[/ QUOTE ]

who?

GaryTheGoat · #7 07-22-2007, 05:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
At the risk of getting involved in the dealer toke threads, there is a difference between juice and withholding for staff/dealer tokes. It is reasonably standard where an entry fee is shown that the toke amount comes out of the separate prize pool. The key is that the complete amount is disclosed in writing BEFORE the entry is made. If people want to pay excessive juice, as they did for the WSOP, then that is there choice. Can you break down the other events with regard to what amounts went where as you did for the Venetian.
So there is no mistake, I would not play one of these events because that juice is absurd, but I sat out WSOP events for the same reason.

[/ QUOTE ]

ditto to bold

TxRedMan · #8 07-22-2007, 06:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At the risk of getting involved in the dealer toke threads, there is a difference between juice and withholding for staff/dealer tokes. It is reasonably standard where an entry fee is shown that the toke amount comes out of the separate prize pool. The key is that the complete amount is disclosed in writing BEFORE the entry is made. If people want to pay excessive juice, as they did for the WSOP, then that is there choice. Can you break down the other events with regard to what amounts went where as you did for the Venetian.
So there is no mistake, I would not play one of these events because that juice is absurd, but I sat out WSOP events for the same reason.

[/ QUOTE ]

ditto to bold

[/ QUOTE ]

you do realize that people were playing in these events because they advertised them as moderate juice, but in reality no one realized until now that the juice was false advertising/outright lying, so players were unaware of the juice.

GaryTheGoat · #9 07-22-2007, 11:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At the risk of getting involved in the dealer toke threads, there is a difference between juice and withholding for staff/dealer tokes. It is reasonably standard where an entry fee is shown that the toke amount comes out of the separate prize pool. The key is that the complete amount is disclosed in writing BEFORE the entry is made. If people want to pay excessive juice, as they did for the WSOP, then that is there choice. Can you break down the other events with regard to what amounts went where as you did for the Venetian.
So there is no mistake, I would not play one of these events because that juice is absurd, but I sat out WSOP events for the same reason.

[/ QUOTE ]

ditto to bold

[/ QUOTE ]

you do realize that people were playing in these events because they advertised them as moderate juice, but in reality no one realized until now that the juice was false advertising/outright lying, so players were unaware of the juice.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tx,

You do realize that I think that the attitude, actions and behavior of the principals of CEO Poker Tour are reprehensible, false, deceptive, grossly negligent and/or criminal. Their partners-in-crime including, without limitation, the Taj Mahal, Palms, and Venetian casinos, as well as the PPA, knew, or should have known, of said behavior and benefited therefrom to the detriment of all poker players and the once beautiful game of poker itself. The whole lot should be pistol whipped then hung by the neck. At least they should be prosecuted as a continuing criminal enterprise under the RICO statutes.

As to Harrahs/WSOP, it's a matter of degree, not of kind. They are only as greedy and deceptive as their lawyers and the law allow them to be:

"It is reasonably standard where an entry fee is shown that the toke amount comes out of the separate prize pool." Quote from ncpokeresq post hereinabove.

Maybe CEO Poker Tour et al. should be applauded for finally "crossing the line" on how much juice is charged and how it is "fine printed". At least now the recreational players may become aware of the onerous juice being applied to today's tournaments before same becomes an "industry standard" together with "customary" tips on top of "fine printed" tips.

However, I expect CEO's actions will only serve to make us appreciate the [censored] that Harrahs/WSOP and other "honest" operators are giving the players and the game.

"...Because those pros are shills for them to get the bigger tips from the tourists.
But in return for not griping about those smaller tips, they think they should expect in return that the pros don't go out of their way to influence the tourists to tip less. Even if deep down they realize they don't "deserve" those tips. Personally I would be willing to abide by that agreement if..." Excerpt from Sklansky post here:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...ue#Post11308759

Albeit David, with his Brandi mentorin', internet poker cheatin', black hooker payin', statutory rapin' ethics, is willing to abide by shill agreements with the dealers (and the house), I am not willing to shill for the house (and dealers) any longer. I know that I may be forgoing short-term positive ev since the tourists' weak play may currently exceed the absurd juice.

Tx, away from the same poker table, we are partners with a common unbeatable foe known collectively as the house which just lurks in the background, periodically taking chips off each player's stack. If we allow the house's greed to kill the golden goose, we all lose.

Thanks Tx,

GB

xxx · #10 07-23-2007, 12:37 AM

There is some irony that this took so long to come to light, considering that the entry was restricted to CEO's (who are presumably the MOST CAPABLE people to understand a balance sheet and money flow).