$335 Laying down KK on a dry flop

DDBeast · #1 07-12-2007, 11:49 PM

PF raiser is Assassin8tor, who has solid stats, however I've seen him play a little too loose early on. Other coldcaller is dave3318, who is relatively passive, even with strong hands. He gets involved in way too many pots.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button (t1411)
SB (t3450)
BB (t1485)
UTG (t1439)
MP1 (t1470)
MP2 (t1215)
Hero (t3030)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP1 raises to t150, 1 fold, Hero calls t150, Button calls t150, 2 folds.

Flop: (t525) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets t300, Button calls t300, MP1 raises to t1320, Hero folds, Button folds.

Final Pot: t2445

KoreanBuffet · #2 07-12-2007, 11:51 PM

I would RR PF, but maybe thats why I don't play $335s. And I don't think the check raise says set here. I think you have to call as played, but keep in mind it would take me 225ish games to make a buyin for this one lol.

suzzer99 · #3 07-12-2007, 11:54 PM

Smoothcalling makes me a little nervous with your read on button and the odds the blinds will be getting to call. I understand you don't want ass8 to play perfectly but I dunno - maybe just shove and he puts you on AK.

Flop no idea, but I've seen ass8 get a little tilty at times. I'm not sure you can rule out AQ here. You think he shoves QQ on a dry board like that, or even AA which is almost the same hand here?

hoyasaxa · #4 07-13-2007, 12:01 AM

1. i would rereaise pf
2. you dont think you see aq/kq here enough to make this a call?

Little John · #5 07-13-2007, 12:07 AM

Ahead of AQ, KQ (18 combinations)

Behind QQ 77 AA (12 combinations), add 3 more if 22 is in his open range

He has played the hand weird if he has a set. Anyway, there is a huge overlay and you still have 1560 chips if you lose. No way I am getting away from this with that overlay.

Also, dave could have a quite a bit here.

ChipLeader · #6 07-13-2007, 12:09 AM

If PF bet was 200+ i think you could just call here and get good value on a trap. However, with a 150 bet, the blinds have too good of odds to overcall- i dont like it.

Flop is a dream come true near as I can tell. If he had QQ, a bettor, and a caller, with NO draws on the flop, why wouldnt he call one off and either bet out a not-so-good turn card or even go for the c/r on turn? He has NO reason to push with QQ here, so unless you put him on AA i think this screams AQ with a passion, hoping to trap some extra bets from someone who takes the check as weak or someone with a worse Q.

Shillx · #7 07-13-2007, 12:14 AM

I don't get his flop check and it has been a long time but there is no way I'm calling the AI. Dave has to have a queen (or better) so this isn't a move. AA or QQ take your pick. Edit call if this could be AQ but I don't see it.

ChipLeader · #8 07-13-2007, 12:27 AM

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I don't get his flop check and it has been a long time but there is no way I'm calling the AI. Dave has to have a queen (or better) so this isn't a move. AA or QQ take your pick. Edit call if this could be AQ but I don't see it.

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I explained all the reasons i dont see QQ in my post, can you give me a reason to think he does? Hell, some fishy minraise would be better than a push, there is not a SINGLE card that will break you on the turn that you can put someone on (obv you dont expect KK, and even if you did thats only 2 cards). He should be milking QQ, not driving people out. This is AA/AQ/ maybe 77, QQ only if this is somehow the way $335 players play.

DDBeast · #9 07-13-2007, 12:58 AM

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I don't get his flop check and it has been a long time but there is no way I'm calling the AI. Dave has to have a queen (or better) so this isn't a move. AA or QQ take your pick. Edit call if this could be AQ but I don't see it.

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I explained all the reasons i dont see QQ in my post, can you give me a reason to think he does? Hell, some fishy minraise would be better than a push, there is not a SINGLE card that will break you on the turn that you can put someone on (obv you dont expect KK, and even if you did thats only 2 cards). He should be milking QQ, not driving people out. This is AA/AQ/ maybe 77, QQ only if this is somehow the way $335 players play.

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I shouldn't have posted results. From Assassins point of view: Okay, I have 77/QQ/AA/KK, I don't risk anyone drawing out on me with this flop, check and wait for people to catch up. Wow, bet and a call on this flop, no way both of them are folding, I may even get 2 calls. Both of us folding is so rare here. (dave said he folded AQ). He isn't trying to push out, but simply maximize value.
He's definitely not doing this with less than a pair of queens and I doubt he even ever has KQ. AQ is possible but given our pf ranges and the action on the flop, he shouldn't be pushing.
And then....I still have to worry about dave, who is notorious for playing big hands slow.
I can't hope they both have AQ here.

ChipLeader · #10 07-13-2007, 01:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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I don't get his flop check and it has been a long time but there is no way I'm calling the AI. Dave has to have a queen (or better) so this isn't a move. AA or QQ take your pick. Edit call if this could be AQ but I don't see it.

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I explained all the reasons i dont see QQ in my post, can you give me a reason to think he does? Hell, some fishy minraise would be better than a push, there is not a SINGLE card that will break you on the turn that you can put someone on (obv you dont expect KK, and even if you did thats only 2 cards). He should be milking QQ, not driving people out. This is AA/AQ/ maybe 77, QQ only if this is somehow the way $335 players play.

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I shouldn't have posted results. From Assassins point of view: Okay, I have 77/QQ/AA/KK, I don't risk anyone drawing out on me with this flop, check and wait for people to catch up. Wow, bet and a call on this flop, no way both of them are folding, I may even get 2 calls. Both of us folding is so rare here. (dave said he folded AQ). He isn't trying to push out, but simply maximize value.
He's definitely not doing this with less than a pair of queens and I doubt he even ever has KQ. AQ is possible but given our pf ranges and the action on the flop, he shouldn't be pushing.
And then....I still have to worry about dave, who is notorious for playing big hands slow.
I can't hope they both have AQ here.

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If hes pushing out TPTK and an overpair, he needs to reevaluate how to get maximum value [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] If you guys play with each other often enough to have reads like "Dave is notorious for slowplaying big hands" than perhaps you really dont need any analysis on this hand, youll know the right play better than we will.