nys legal poker experts

willie · #1 07-11-2007, 05:06 PM

so my local club is run by a guy who has sworn up and down that his club is "going to be legal" and now..."is legal"

Here is his reasoning..
1- he has legal papers [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
2- it's a private club
3- it's classified as a "non profit" organization...um, yeah
4- he doesn't rake, (they take an "assessment fee" out of the pot...)

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

anyway, there are 2 clubs like this near me now- and they've both had articles in my local paper.... here is a link to the article

Second legal poker club opens in area

this is laughable- i sent an email to the reporter telling him the same thing.

btw, here is a great line to get all local officials ears perked up

"But Gagliardo says his club caters to a higher clientele than Otto's and includes state troopers, a judge and a lawyer."

*TT* · #2 07-11-2007, 05:09 PM

There is no way in hell a NYS DA would issue a brief declaring his game to be legal. But its an interesting turn of events for NY players... I wonder how much he will be willing to fight the case in court? Do you know what the membership fees are?

willie · #3 07-11-2007, 05:15 PM

membership fees

80 a year for cash game + tournament play rights- and access to bad beat/royal flush jackpots

65 a year if you just want to play tournaments.

-- i just noticed in the article it mentions only "tournament poker club" with no mention of raked cash game activity.

willie · #4 07-11-2007, 05:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
There is no way in hell a NYS DA would issue a brief declaring his game to be legal. But its an interesting turn of events for NY players... I wonder how much he will be willing to fight the case in court? Do you know what the membership fees are?

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm not sure also about the other article, but "Al Otto's Poker club" was raided, and shut down for the night.

No money was confiscated and he got an injunction against the town that has allowed him to continue to operate for the time being..

The thing that threw me TT was that, with the NYC clubs that ran and made 10-40x what these guys make.....how did the big clubs down there never find this loophole these guys are claiming.

GiantBuddha · #5 07-11-2007, 05:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The thing that threw me TT was that, with the NYC clubs that ran and made 10-40x what these guys make.....how did the big clubs down there never find this loophole these guys are claiming.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was actually one of a handful of ideas I had for making a club legal. If it's illegal to profit from gambling, then a non-profit card club should be safe. Of course, it wouldn't be very profitable. You could take a salary for running the establishment, but not a salary. You could charge a membership fee, daily time charges (not hourly) and close at a reasonable hour. I personally think a club like this would have a good chance of success, but the rewards would not be that high other than feeling good about yourself for improving the state of new york poker.

FWIW, the Mayfair claimed to be legal, and was not actually shut down based on gambling charges. They had a kitchen and a situation with the dumping of garbage. Their legality was thus never tested in court.

Vidocq · #6 07-11-2007, 06:53 PM

It is worth watching, but I see lots of problems down the road. Here's one: it goes by the name of Big Slick, Inc. If it really is a corporation then it probably isn't a "not for profit social club."

nineinchal · #7 07-11-2007, 07:08 PM

You can tell it to the judge...........

Wubbie075 · #8 07-11-2007, 08:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It is worth watching, but I see lots of problems down the road. Here's one: it goes by the name of Big Slick, Inc. If it really is a corporation then it probably isn't a "not for profit social club."

[/ QUOTE ]

What does being incorporated have to do with being not for profit??

*TT* · #9 07-11-2007, 09:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i'm not sure also about the other article, but "Al Otto's Poker club" was raided, and shut down for the night.

No money was confiscated and he got an injunction against the town that has allowed him to continue to operate for the time being..

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems that Al Otto was able to argue in court that he may be operating legally, so the court issued an injunction until the case is heard. This is not surprising, but it also doesnt mean he is operating legally - that is still to be determined.

Without going into research my understanding is that NYS will issue a temporary license to operate a poker tournament for charity. The charity must be a licensed regulated charity (not just a not for profit business), and the donation plan must be approved. These two rooms sound like they think they found a loophole that likely won't hold up.

TMTTR Alert! We need you!

psandman · #10 07-12-2007, 12:46 AM

I practiced law in NY for 10 years and I have no problem saying that this gentlemen is mistaken if he believes what he is doing is actually legal.

The biggest problem with people like this is that while they very well could have operated a poker club without a problem for quite some time if they kept it on the down low, they convince themselves it is legal and they don't proetc themselves. So eventually they will force the police to take action. Its very likely that in a place like Wallkill NY the police would be happy to ignore an illegal poker game as long as it didb't get out of hand.

As for being approved by the sate, it simply appears they formed a not-for-profit corporation for social purposes, not really a big deal, and while technically the may have NYS states approval, that doesn't mean the state approves everything the corporation does.