200NL- ugly spot with Tens

Veron · #1 07-10-2007, 07:02 AM

UTG is 50/7/3 over 250 hands. so Loose/Passive/Aggressive as you can see.

We played a hand a couple orbits ago where I raised PF and got 2 callers in the blinds including villain. we checked around twice on a 7627 board and villain bluffed into 2 players on the river with KQo UI losing to my A high.

CO is a solid 24/20/3. He opens very loose in late position and isolates limpers very loose as well.

CO ($195.15)
Button ($454.55)
Hero ($254.50)
BB ($343.58)
UTG ($862.82)
MP ($188.16)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls $2, 1 fold, CO raises to $10, 1 fold, Hero raises to $38, 1 fold, UTG calls $36, CO folds.

Flop: ($88) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $57, UTG calls $57.

Turn: ($202) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks. Villain instantly checked behind 

River: ($202) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $70, UTG raises to $140, Hero folds. villain instantly minraised 

I don't have notes on what his timing tells specifically mean.

Comments on all streets appreciated...

Veron

Final Pot: $412

MM_red33 · #2 07-10-2007, 07:10 AM

i guess the first thing to come to me is why check the turn?

Nick Royale · #3 07-10-2007, 07:14 AM

Give it up after your flop bet is getting called. The flop is about as dry as it can be, I can't see him calling with worse than Kx.

good_gamble · #4 07-10-2007, 07:18 AM

Give up after called on flop, and why bet so little on river unless you want to induce a bluff?

schlimazel · #5 07-10-2007, 10:30 AM

he limped/cold called a 3bet. you know he plays a lot of hands and rarely raises them, and he's also willing to bluff when sensing weakness.

i like the turn check. on the river though, do you think he calls with more hands that you beat or bluffs with them? if you think he's capable of bluff-raising, i'd check/call. if he's more passive, i'd bet/fold.

with his AF of 3 and his past history, i think a check/call on the river is best. i think his hand range is weighted more toward pairs than random kings (KQ, KJ?)

Hince · #6 07-10-2007, 10:36 AM

Flop is fine. Turn check is also fine.

I don't know why you are betting the river... are you expecting him to fold a king after you check the turn? or are you expecting him to call with a 9?

Veron · #7 07-10-2007, 12:59 PM

Preflop and flop are standard.

I planned on giving up on the turn, but since villain instantly checked behind on the turn I was very confident that villain didn't have a K. He would have very likely bet a K and else he would have atleast considered betting it!

So since I'm certain that I had the best hand at the turn the question is what the most profitable river line will be. At the table I figured that villain would likely call a smallish bet with a PP <TT and would not bluff raise me. So the bet was certainly for value and definitely not an attempt to fold a K as some posters asked...

Now I'm reviewing the hand I'm not certain if my river line is optimal. Villain might bet more hands when checked to than he will call with, because he's capable of bluffing after passivity and he might valuebet worse hands (not sure about that though)

Will post the interesting results later (yes he indeed showed) but hope to get some more input...

Veron

PRE · #8 07-10-2007, 01:09 PM

I think villian is on JJ+ here. I agree with everyone else that checking the river is much more optimal given the way PF went down.

J-Bo · #9 07-10-2007, 01:09 PM

I check-call river, as I don't better hands fold or worse hands call (maybe 88-77 but that's pretty narrow).

I'm very tempted to call the minraise. It's air or a monster most likely, and I can't put him on a monster except a backdoor flush.

Nick Royale · #10 07-10-2007, 01:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
since villain instantly checked behind on the turn I was very confident that villain didn't have a K.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this assumption is wrong. You probably didn't check the turn fast enough for him not having the time to make a decision what to do with a weak king if you check. It's a no brainer check with Kx on this board so he could easily come to the conclusion to check the turn if he gets the opportunity on the flop already. Btw, what hands do you think he'll autocheck? PPs and 9x only?

[ QUOTE ]
Villain might bet more hands when checked to than he will call with, because he's capable of bluffing after passivity and he might valuebet worse hands (not sure about that though)

[/ QUOTE ]
The problem is he can't have a hand without sd value unless he's capable of calling the flop with a gut-shot (highly unlikely). So I just c/f the river expecting him to take a free sd with PPs/9x and bet only with better hands. I don't think a bet gets called by worse hands often enough. Edit: I think the key to this hand is that the flop is so dry and scary looking and your bet is big enough that I don't think he'll make it past the flop without a better hand often and when he does he bet those on the river too infrequently to making calling a bet on the river +EV.