Open limping with 20-35xBB

[betgo]

This is a general theoretical discussion of bet size related to stack size rather than a discussion of a specific hand. Limping is much misused, but it can be effective in the right situation with the threat of an aggressive follow up. Obviously it depends on your style, limping with a medium stack is effective if you play well postflop in small pots or play badly with large pots OOP.

I think there are a lot of advantages to open limping with this stack size. If you raise, your opponents have an ideal restealing size, and getting flat called OOP with the pot a large percentage of your stack can put you in a difficult situation.

If you limp, you have the reraise possibility if someone raises, and the reraise looks strong, since a limpreraise is often a big hand. Also, you improve your position postflop, as you get to decide how to handle a raise after others have acted. Not only can you limpreraise without a monster hand, but the threat of a limpreraise makes it easier to limp marginal hands. In general, the limp works best at an aggressive table. Obviously, there are advantages to raising, but the advantages of limping with this stack size makes limping a reasonable alternative.

By contrast, with less than 15xBB, you cannot limpreraise with much FE, so limping is generally bad with any hand. With less than 15xBB, you have two plays, raising 2-2.7xBB and open pushing. With less than 10xBB, particularly with a big ante, you should generally only open push or fold.

[Isura]

This is something I've been thinking about. I saw a few players doing this at the ME (some using it better than others), but I think its a viable strategy. I had several spots with hands like KQ or A9o when you don't want action, and there are big stacks behind who can 3-bet or call with position (30bb stacks). I also think its a good way to play AA/KK/AK because by just raising 3bb, you let people see flops cheaply where they won't give a ton of action unless you're beat. But by limp/reraising you can play a big pot and perhaps induce some calls or at least pickup a nice sized pot without showdown. Also, with 30-40bb I felt like my postflop advantage was mostly eliminated in raised pots. This is also a consideration when we have position, because we kind of let others play better by 3-betting us OOP.

[djk123]

Open limping is so weak. The only time I would do it really is if I had like 10-15 bbs and I was ep with AA at a really tight table, preferably with people who don't know me.

I can't remember the last time I open limped when it wasn't with AA or KK with the intention of LRRing all in. First of all, you automatically lose any chance of taking the blinds/antes down right away. Also, I really don't think you are going to fool a good player. The first time I see someone open limp, I'm usually a little suspicious. But once I see them do it a few times, it's obvious they aren't just doing this with monsters, so I start to raise their limps.

Furthermore, say you have 15bbs and are on the button with two aggressive players behind you who are capable of restealing. If you open limp on the button, what are you trying to represent? Wouldn't you raise your big hands trying to induce a resteal?

[betgo]

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Open limping is so weak. The only time I would do it really is if I had like 10-15 bbs and I was ep with AA at a really tight table, preferably with people who don't know me.

I can't remember the last time I open limped when it wasn't with AA or KK with the intention of LRRing all in. First of all, you automatically lose any chance of taking the blinds/antes down right away. Also, I really don't think you are going to fool a good player. The first time I see someone open limp, I'm usually a little suspicious. But once I see them do it a few times, it's obvious they aren't just doing this with monsters, so I start to raise their limps.

Furthermore, say you have 15bbs and are on the button with two aggressive players behind you who are capable of restealing. If you open limp on the button, what are you trying to represent? Wouldn't you raise your big hands trying to induce a resteal?

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First of all, I said generally don't open limp with 15xBB with any hand. I would generally make a small raise with AA and hope for a resteal.

Secondly, if you only open limp AA/KK, your play is readable.

Third, if I limp and usually don't have big pairs, and you raise light, isn't that what I want if I often limpreraise?

[djk123]

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Open limping is so weak. The only time I would do it really is if I had like 10-15 bbs and I was ep with AA at a really tight table, preferably with people who don't know me.

I can't remember the last time I open limped when it wasn't with AA or KK with the intention of LRRing all in. First of all, you automatically lose any chance of taking the blinds/antes down right away. Also, I really don't think you are going to fool a good player. The first time I see someone open limp, I'm usually a little suspicious. But once I see them do it a few times, it's obvious they aren't just doing this with monsters, so I start to raise their limps.

Furthermore, say you have 15bbs and are on the button with two aggressive players behind you who are capable of restealing. If you open limp on the button, what are you trying to represent? Wouldn't you raise your big hands trying to induce a resteal?

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First of all, I said generally don't open limp with 15xBB with any hand. I would generally make a small raise with AA and hope for a resteal.

Secondly, if you only open limp AA/KK, your play is readable.

Third, if I limp and usually don't have big pairs, and you raise light, isn't that what I want if I often limpreraise?

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Note that i said preferably at a table where people don't know me. So how would they know that I only do that with big pairs?

Also, what if I see right through your limpraise and call you light?

[betgo]

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Open limping is so weak. The only time I would do it really is if I had like 10-15 bbs and I was ep with AA at a really tight table, preferably with people who don't know me.

I can't remember the last time I open limped when it wasn't with AA or KK with the intention of LRRing all in. First of all, you automatically lose any chance of taking the blinds/antes down right away. Also, I really don't think you are going to fool a good player. The first time I see someone open limp, I'm usually a little suspicious. But once I see them do it a few times, it's obvious they aren't just doing this with monsters, so I start to raise their limps.

Furthermore, say you have 15bbs and are on the button with two aggressive players behind you who are capable of restealing. If you open limp on the button, what are you trying to represent? Wouldn't you raise your big hands trying to induce a resteal?

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First of all, I said generally don't open limp with 15xBB with any hand. I would generally make a small raise with AA and hope for a resteal.

Secondly, if you only open limp AA/KK, your play is readable.

Third, if I limp and usually don't have big pairs, and you raise light, isn't that what I want if I often limpreraise?

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Note that i said preferably at a table where people don't know me. So how would they know that I only do that with big pairs?

Also, what if I see right through your limpraise and call you light?

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You may call me light, but people are afraid of AA/KK. Also, I may really have a big hand or do it with something like TT/AQ. I can judge the action and get a read on the players and decide whether to reraise/call or fold if I don't have a big hand. Also, you said you were raising light, so you will often be behind if you call, and you probably won't be able to call.

[djk123]

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Open limping is so weak. The only time I would do it really is if I had like 10-15 bbs and I was ep with AA at a really tight table, preferably with people who don't know me.

I can't remember the last time I open limped when it wasn't with AA or KK with the intention of LRRing all in. First of all, you automatically lose any chance of taking the blinds/antes down right away. Also, I really don't think you are going to fool a good player. The first time I see someone open limp, I'm usually a little suspicious. But once I see them do it a few times, it's obvious they aren't just doing this with monsters, so I start to raise their limps.

Furthermore, say you have 15bbs and are on the button with two aggressive players behind you who are capable of restealing. If you open limp on the button, what are you trying to represent? Wouldn't you raise your big hands trying to induce a resteal?

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, I said generally don't open limp with 15xBB with any hand. I would generally make a small raise with AA and hope for a resteal.

Secondly, if you only open limp AA/KK, your play is readable.

Third, if I limp and usually don't have big pairs, and you raise light, isn't that what I want if I often limpreraise?

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Note that i said preferably at a table where people don't know me. So how would they know that I only do that with big pairs?

Also, what if I see right through your limpraise and call you light?

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You may call me light, but people are afraid of AA/KK. Also, I may really have a big hand or do it with something like TT/AQ. I can judge the action and get a read on the players and decide whether to reraise/call or fold if I don't have a big hand. Also, you said you were raising light, so you will often be behind if you call, and you probably won't be able to call.

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whatevvvv. This is really kinda pointless cause neither of us are gonna budge on our stances. openlimping in my opinion is just such a weak play. In my opinion, with a few exceptions of course, the players who open limp often are generally the weakest players at the table.

[Isura]

I've seen gigabet open limp. hellmuth toO!

[djk123]

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I've seen gigabet open limp. hellmuth toO!

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i wouldn't mind having either of them at my table

[hamnegger]

i love when people here make fun of hellmuth. like most of the people here are superior to him. give me a break although he is a jerk his ability is at the top. yes he can be run over at times but he doesnt care he knows when to pounce on players or call them down with nothing. his call down of hoyt corkins w i think q high was tremendous. that said, to say open limping is bad good or otherwise is foolish. any style if played well and adapted to SITUATIONS can be a winning style. never open limping can be successful limping alot can work too. in boxing you can be a jabber a counter-puncher an inside fighter etc . no style is better than the other its the quality at which that style is utilized that counts.