big argument over super std hand xpost

[luegofuego]

hey forgot there was a SH forum.



6h 15/30 on FTP:

i post my first BB in the game. i get dealt AJo in BB, unknown CO opens, i 3bet. he caps and i call.

flop comes pretty dry and ace high. what is my plan?

i still dont play that much LHE so i am still unsure of the best lines and blabla but this hand kinda represents some of the things that confuse me about LHE theory. i already know its a WA/WB situation of sorts and i know people will tell me its a standard c/c c/c c/c line or whatever.

but it is a LP vs BB situation in a SH online limit game. it feels incredibly weak and predictable to go for pot control when i hit gin, does it not? how can it be game theoretically defendable to use the same line with QQ or similar (i would def c/c c/c c/c given the aggression and spewiness of online) as i do with AJo in this situation?

can it really be correct to put in ONE BET on each street with this hand? i REALLY want to put in more - am i wrong in wanting to do so? what lines can i use to accomplish this? and if it indeed IS correct to not put in more bets than one, what is the cut off hand you would want to raise with at some point?

in the end the line i took was donk/called flop, check/called turn and bet river planning to fold (turn and river where both brix). what do you think of that line?

if i c/r and then lead turn and he raises, i am guessing i have to fold? doesnt that really really reallllly SUCK against someone savvy? and if i AM showdown bound, doesnt putting in two big bets on the turn suck just as much?

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
hey forgot there was a SH forum.
can it really be correct to put in ONE BET on each street with this hand? i REALLY want to put in more - am i wrong in wanting to do so? what lines can i use to accomplish this?

in the end the line i took was donk/called flop, check/called turn and bet river planning to fold (turn and river where both brix). what do you think of that line?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's fine to explore other ways to play this hand, but I don't know you'll find a +EV way of putting in more than one bet on the turn or river, as I don't know if folding is +EV if they raise. Hmmm. I think c/c, c/c, bet/call is probably your best bet at this limit at that site, but your line would probably work. But if you bet/call the flop, often the turn will get checked through by someone with a medium pocket.

Of course, the same thing is just as likely if you c/call the flop after 3-betting pf.

FTP can be pretty goofy, I don't think you can safely fold to a turn raise after you c/r the flop, but I might be completely wrong.

Sorry for the stream-of-consciousness on this one. Annoying, ain't it, that there's no obvious best answer for such a standard situation?

[gehrig]

this isnt a very complicated hand

getting aggressive costs u some amount of money vs some % of his range bc ur behind, costs u some amount of money vs some % of his range bc u stop him from bluffing and gains u some amount of money from some % of his range that is behind and showing down. fill in the numbers and u know how to play the hand

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
fill in the numbers and u know how to play the hand

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, give us all the numbers, we'll give them to cartman, and he'll tell us how to play the hand, easy-peasy Japanesy. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[DeathDonkey]

I think in current online poker landscape c/c checkraise turn value bet river gets paid off by big pairs everytime and AK rarely reraises the turn. If you do get 3 bet on the turn I generally call and fold the river if they bet again but don't tell anyone as its pretty exploitable [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

-DeathDonkey

[gehrig]

i dont really play these games anymore but id be surprised if u have 50% equity vs his non-folding range (and the hands he folds u want to either give a chance to bluff riv or give a chance to call a river donk) once he bets turn

[gehrig]

i really hate the cc cc donk line because it makes me feel like the world's most mediocre one dollar/two dollar TAG but im pretty certain its best here

[gehrig]

the one benefit to the cc cc donk line is u get to feel all sorts of pretty when he checks behind turn and then pays off a river cr

[geormiet]

i usually take one of 2 lines:

chk call down, or chk raise flop and go from there.

The latter line i like because KK - TT is never folding and also it will help your folding equity in future hands - he will know you're capable of c-r'ing an A in that situation.

[DeathDonkey]

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

1,064,279 games 11.547 secs 92,169 games/sec

Board: As 8h 4d 5c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 59.809% 53.82% 05.99% 572779 63772.00 { AcJs }
Hand 1: 40.191% 34.20% 05.99% 363990 63772.00 { 99+, AJs+, AJo+ }

Think my range is reasonable?

-DeathDonkey