6.50 Stars...getting punked on a steal attempt

cougar62 · #1 07-01-2007, 01:24 AM

Maybe I played this like a nit, no real reads, villian seemed ok, nothing stood out. Do we fear the flat call and insta min-bet?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB (t3905)
UTG (t1255)
MP (t4700)
Hero (t1280)
SB (t2360)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to t300, SB calls t250, 1 fold.

Flop: (t700) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets t100, Hero????

ymu · #2 07-01-2007, 01:48 AM

Deeper stacked I usually insta-raise min-donkbets to a sensible amount and they nearly always fold. This shortstacked it's trickier because you're committed if you raise, so it's push or fold time. Against some opponents I would push here, but only because I know they love to minbet bluff OOP in these spots.

Otherwise, it's a fold - but you shouldn't be in this situation at all. Open push this preflop. You don't have a deep enough stack to play poker postflop and it sucks if you have to fold when you miss, especially shorthanded when the blinds are never far away.

Jimmy James · #3 07-01-2007, 04:29 AM

I agree, I push this from the button. After your raise, you only have 980 left in your stack and now you don't know what to do when you miss the flop. Just push from the button and hope to get a call from A2-AT. If someone wakes up with a better hand, well that's just bad luck and go load up another tourney.

MADVILLIAN · #4 07-01-2007, 05:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree, I push this from the button. After your raise, you only have 980 left in your stack and now you don't know what to do when you miss the flop. Just push from the button and hope to get a call from A2-AT. If someone wakes up with a better hand, well that's just bad luck and go load up another tourney.

[/ QUOTE ]

werd

ymu · #5 07-01-2007, 05:14 AM

Also - this isn't a steal raise. This is a raising hand any which way you look at it. It looks like a steal raise - which is another reason to push it - you'll get called by a lot of smaller hands.

cougar62 · #6 07-01-2007, 05:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Also - this isn't a steal raise. This is a raising hand any which way you look at it. It looks like a steal raise - which is another reason to push it - you'll get called by a lot of smaller hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your right, I'll be posting more hands like this, because I get sort of lost sometimes in that no-mans-land stack of 11-15BB's where we're not quite at push/fold ICM mode but like you said earlier, you really can't play post flop if you raise pf. In general whats the best thing to do, minraise or shove? or just shove, but tighter, when you fall in that stack range?

Edit: BTW, what about the fold on the flop? Or is the answer "don't get in that spot in the first place, [censored]" [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

ymu · #7 07-01-2007, 05:41 AM

It depends a lot on table conditions. Personally, as soon as I get close to 15BB I start to think about pushing. With one or more limpers I'll push with up to 20BB if it feels right. If there's a raise before me, I reraise AI with up to 30BB if a reraise is warranted by the strength of my hand or my read of villain.

As a general rule, if a standard raise will leave me with around 10BB I'll push instead - but tighter than I would at <10BB as I still have some time to find a hand. If the table is very tight I might raise 3x for a bit longer, if they're loose I'll start pushing earlier. If we're short-handed, I'll start pushing earlier.

As regards the flop fold ... I have to admit I very often push here. The reason being that I pretty much always c-bet after I raise preflop and by this stage my opponents know this and seem to think that the optimal solution is to minbet block me when they're OOP. A lot of players will adopt this strategy anyway if they have a big stack - because minbets are sooo intimidating...

It's not a bad flop texture for this move - he could have any number of draws, underpairs, or just A high. Sane thing is to fold, but if I feel good about it, I'll push.

ymu · #8 07-01-2007, 05:45 AM

Oh - and I don't minraise. There are very few hands I want to see a flop with at this point - I'm very happy to take down the blinds so that I still have 10BB at the next blind level. I'm looking to maximise FE - which means a real raise.

AMT · #9 07-01-2007, 09:52 AM

shove pf

Alex_Rules · #10 07-02-2007, 05:09 PM

I just started playing 6.50 two tables on stars, so I get in this range a lot at the end of the first table with 5 or 6 players. I never take that min bet, or even 200 bet, as very strong because a lot of players will do it with just an ace high or something like queen-jack. But, you don't really have enough chips to play post flop, and a lot of blinds call a push with A7-type hands. I think a push preflop, or in your case on the flop.