Best Path to success in high$$MTTs-micro,small,md/lg buyins?

[yimyammer]

I'm trying to take some time to devote to really learning how to play MTTs and I am trying to figure out the best path to learn how to be competitive at large buy in MTTs like the WPT & WSOP.

My thoughts are that if I can't show an optimal (or close to) win rate at the micro limits ($1 to $6.50) on Stars, then I shouldn't move up to the next level.

My thinking is I should learn how to consistently beat the micro levels and then progress to small buy ins, then Medium and finally large.

I have the funds to start at the highest limits but I would just be donking off my money.

I am not trying to do this in a few months and am willing to take 2 to 3 years if necessary.

My strengths are:

1. I am extremely patient,
2. have good bank roll management,
3. I am not the crazy gambler type.

My weaknesses are:
1. I am not the crazy gambler type,
2. I need work on incorporating position & strategy into my game,
3. I am not good at reading hands
4. picking up tells (live or online)
5. winning without a hand
6. inducing calls & bluffs
7. playing the player & not just my cards
8. setting & avoiding traps

If I start at the micro limits, is it beneficial to learn what it takes to win at those levels or is it counter productive to what I would have to do at the higher and highest levels?

I could start at the small to middle levels and not have any problem bankrolling those MTTs. Although I have played in the WSOP ME in 2006 (via lockbox win at Bodog), I think it would be a waste of money and too discouraging to try to be competitive at the highest levels.

I dont care for cash games much, but would be willing to play them if they are an essential component to being a successful MTT player.

Thoughts/suggestions?

Thanks in advance

[hamnegger]

1. i would not play lowest levels . huge fields = huge variance plus these players stink. play straight foward should grind a profit long term. play 20-50 buy ins these are solid players on ft and stars.

2. if you have a big bankroll play the online main event every week or 1 big tourn a week. see how it differs.

3. learn to fold good but beaten hands. This is the real tough one. when you start to think " i can beat x and y" you are looking for an excuse to call when your instinct is telling u fold.

4. develop a variety of ways to play hands. avoid tendencies or use those tendencies to set plays up. ex i limp w little pairs from ep even when blinds go up to set up reraise w a big hand.

5. live watch the player on the flop not the cards and watch to see if he bets his chips a different way.

6. don't play weak tight or show hands or talk when against good players. they will use this info against you

[dafrk3in]

you might want to try the 4.40 180 mans. they have relatively small fields, are very cheap, and run all of the time.

they seem like the perfect spot to develop your skills.

[HojoMofo]

you will encounter people that suck in all buyins of tournaments, so it is good to get to know what they are like. The micros are great at a bunch of things, including giving you some confidence, and giving you a thicker skin because there will be lots of suckouts there. For learning good or atleast decent final table strategies I recommend sngs at first.

[shat4brains]

ya the 180 mans are your best bet for sure

[coatsie]

the best thing to do is post on here.

as for hand rading, its difficult to start but first off you need a good setup - no tv, eat before a tourny, have a drink next to ya, have music on lowish.

every hand you're not involved in, focus on 1 player involved. Put him on a range of hands to start and elimate certain holdings throughout the hand based on the action. at the showdown if youre way off, quickly think why from the betting. then to the next hand. Once your happy with 1 player focus on 2, 3 etc. if your in the hand focus on all the players involved and do the same process. soon you'll easily spot bluffs and strength = good.

next step is to have a good memory of what hands players showdown and how they played it, allowing you to pick spots later on in the tourny.

this may seema lot of work coz it is.

heres my move up strategy i suppose after playing 4/180 you can move onto large mtt. im using each stage to build skills + confidence when you move up a level is a big boost

[image]http://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=binjt3.jpg[/image]


keep fighting the good fight

[uclabruinz]

If you already play ABC poker well then the micros are just a waste of time. I would suggest you play medium, but only 1-3 tables at a time (maybe $55ish buyins, $10rs, stuff like that if you are indeed properly bankrolled). Spend a lot of time closely reviewing hand histories, and hire a coach or find a good player to exchange hand histories with. Read and post a lot in these forums. HOH1&2 and NLHTP are required reading/studying if you haven't already.

[MJBuddy]

180s are a win here. Closest thing to a larger MTT while maintaining lower variance and you get to experience every stage of a major MTT if you make it to the FT.

You need to read HoH - completely changed my game from breakeven to winning within the week I read it, and been improving ever since. TPFAP is great once you see a small profit in your play, because it lays out a distinct theory on tournament play; and the math is easily explained and easy to utilize.

Best way I've found to test my own play by the end of a session is the willigness to start a new session. IF you're paying close enough attention and playing the best you can, you're actually going to feel tired and another 2-4 hour tournament is going to make you feel kinda sick. That's good though :P.

[dafrk3in]

[ QUOTE ]
If you already play ABC poker well then the micros are just a waste of time. I would suggest you play medium, but only 1-3 tables at a time (maybe $55ish buyins, $10rs, stuff like that if you are indeed properly bankrolled). Spend a lot of time closely reviewing hand histories, and hire a coach or find a good player to exchange hand histories with. Read and post a lot in these forums. HOH1&2 and NLHTP are required reading/studying if you haven't already.

[/ QUOTE ]

first, i would suggest figuring out whether or not you play abc poker well. i think the best place, at least initially, is going to be the 180 man sngs.

also, the books that he suggested (especially the harrington series) should be very helpful.

[APipeDream]

[ QUOTE ]
you might want to try the 4.40 180 mans. they have relatively small fields, are very cheap, and run all of the time.

they seem like the perfect spot to develop your skills.

[/ QUOTE ]

180's are definitely a good bet, but if you're trying to develop a strategy for higher buy-ins, I think it will really skew your play later if you play the 4/180s. I would suggest the 10/180s or 20/180s only. You will absolutely still run into complete morons, but it mirrors a higher buy-in feel much more than the $4 ones. You need a lot of alcohol to put up with some of the stuff you'll see in them. This is just my experience, but my ROI is MUCH higher on the $10s I play than the $4s.