Low Stakes: Strange "Should I move up" Question

AlloAllo · #1 06-17-2007, 07:29 PM

Hi, used the forums for a while, top stuff and all that chaps.

I play on Will Hill. Here are my sharkscope stats:

http://i10.tinypic.com/4yhavec.png

As you can see, when i play at £1.20 I am losing or treading water. But when i play £5.50, i seem to do alot better. I dropped back down during a bit of a downswing when i noticed i was tilting badly, and now I cannot seem to beat these £1.20 games.

Would it be better for my internet poker to stay at £1.20 untill I can beat them? The reasoning being i would be better equipt when i know i am playing a table of Ace-rag donks.

I have a respectable amount of money coming in from my writing (I write for British TV and radio) and this is only a hobby. I know i can beat the £5.50's as its easier to play against people who know the basics and have read a couple of books, in my experience anyway.

If the advice is keep at the lower level untill you can beat it, perhaps some advice on playing against people who do not care about their buy in whatsoever?

The Supertight/Steal blinds thanks to image/super agressive when ITM style (corresponding to early/middle/late game) that i use for the £5.50s is prolly the problem. Do i need to look for spots to double up in the early stages when all the donks are deperate to give their money away?

Apart from the fact that i seem to hae answered my own question, any advice, tips or encoragement will be appriciated.

Thanks guys [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

E

Daleroxxu · #2 06-17-2007, 07:47 PM

in, read sticky

Chimpie · #3 06-17-2007, 07:55 PM

As other reply states, you need to read the FAQ. You might also want to consider the impact that paying 20% rake for the $1.20s as opposed to 10% at the $5.50s will have.

AlloAllo · #4 06-17-2007, 08:05 PM

I have read the stickies and i just checked the ones in this forums again. I can't see and specific advice for playing against people who dont care about their stake.

Could you point out the sticky you mean?

cougar62 · #5 06-17-2007, 08:30 PM

You've played about 300 games at the lower level and 450ish at the higher level. You really don't have a large enough sample size to say you're a better player at the 5.50's (or 5.20's or whatever). Go here: http://www.aleomagus.freeservers.com/Spreadsheet/
And plug in your numbers and play around with the spreadsheets. You'll see how wide a range your results may be long term.

Edit: A classic mistake in reasoning is to think you would win more at a higher level because "there's no way to beat those loose donks at x level". Them not caring about the stakes or their money is an edge for you, not them.

Chimpie · #6 06-17-2007, 08:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I have read the stickies and i just checked the ones in this forums again. I can't see and specific advice for playing against people who dont care about their stake.

Could you point out the sticky you mean?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not in the FAQ and I'm not sure I'm best placed to advise you about the $1.20s as I never played that low (mainly because of the high rake but also because I had a bankroll high enough to start at $5.50s). One thing that did strike me about your post was the part about using your image to steal blinds. You can't use your image to steal blinds at low limits because the majority of players don't even notice anything beyond their own cards.

Supertight at the start is the way to go but for play as the blinds increase look at the tools/links sticky. I would recommend the bubble trainer link.

Edited because I stupidly put that I started playing at $550s rather than $5.50s

AlloAllo · #7 06-17-2007, 08:37 PM

Ah, cool. I thought that 500 games or so was enough for the most basic assesment of how one was doing, didnt realise all had to be at the same stake.

Guess your point is it very possible that the results could have been revered and i would be saying "I beat £1.20 but i cant beat £5.50"

Thanks for the link, sorry for being a noob. Guess i should start multitabling [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

cougar62 · #8 06-17-2007, 08:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ah, cool. I thought that 500 games or so was enough for the most basic assesment of how one was doing, didnt realise all had to be at the same stake.

Guess your point is it very possible that the results could have been revered and i would be saying "I beat £1.20 but i cant beat £5.50"

Thanks for the link, sorry for being a noob. Guess i should start multitabling [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

500 will give you a basic assesment, but very basic. For example, using those spreadsheets I plugged in 500 6.50's tourneys where I ran about 15% ROI, or about a buck a game to the good. Using math and statistical concepts the best you can say about this is there's a 95% chance that my true win rate per game will range between .20 and 1.80 per game. In other words...who the hell knows? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

AlloAllo · #9 06-17-2007, 08:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have read the stickies and i just checked the ones in this forums again. I can't see and specific advice for playing against people who dont care about their stake.

Could you point out the sticky you mean?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not in the FAQ and I'm not sure I'm best placed to advise you about the $1.20s as I never played that low (mainly because of the high rake but also because I had a bankroll high enough to start at $5.50s). One thing that did strike me about your post was the part about using your image to steal blinds. You can't use your image to steal blinds at low limits because the majority of players don't even notice anything beyond their own cards.

Supertight at the start is the way to go but for play as the blinds increase look at the tools/links sticky. I would recommend the bubble trainer link.

Edited because I stupidly put that I started playing at $550s rather than $5.50s

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah im aware most ppl dont consider image at this level, but with sharkscope up, i found winning players at my level DID notice i didnt play any of the first 30 hands and respected my raises after that more.

Like i said, i could stick £500 on will hill and start multitabing £5.50s, but i am kind of keen to understand the mindset of £1.20 players.

cougar62 · #10 06-17-2007, 08:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Like i said, i could stick £500 on will hill and start multitabing £5.50s, but i am kind of keen to understand the mindset of £1.20 players.

[/ QUOTE ]

The mindset of the typical lowstakes player is basically they're there to have some fun. Fun means playing a lot of hands, and doing tricky things like bluffing and slowplaying, which they do way too much. Most don't care enough about poker to actually study the game or their own play, so add all that up and you pretty much get the typical donk. Nice folks, I enjoy building my BR with them.