Early stages MTT strategy/discussion

[phexac]

At the moment, I play fairly low buy-in MTTs (around $20 buyin), so take this post in that context. If you do feel like making comments about higher-buying games, please specify that is what you are talking about.

The typical thing you hear and read about is "tight is right" in the early stages, some people taking this as far as fold everything short of AK for the first few stages. While, that is somewhat extreme, in my opinion, I do tend towards the tight-aggressive side of things, with the exception being some good multiway hands in position.

And every time I see constant 4-5 way pots and 300-400 people busting out in the first 10 minutes, I feel justified in my early game approach. There are simply too many donks at the tables for any sort of involved post-flop play to pay off. And this strategy has served me quite well.

Of course, good cards do not come along every time, which means sometimes I do not get the cards I want and do not manage to make it out of the early stages with a strong enough stack to do well later on. When that happens, it causes me to wonder if perhaps I am giving up some opportunities to build up my stack early on through some selectively aggressive play that is not necessarily always justified with cards. Then I come across the following in an article by "Radashack" on FlopTurnRiver.com:

After he describes the typical opponents you will face, he writes:

"I use all this information, and general guidelines to play a solid post flop game, which is where my stack really built. I will limp with a variety of hands. Anything from 47o, and all those small tiny 1 and 2 gapers. The goal of these hands is to either hit a great flop, or spot weakness in an opponent that can buy you a pot. My next tier hands get a 3xbb raise these are hands like 10Jo and up. I raise to isolate and steal with a hand like this. Where I build my stack is all post flop play. Spotting weakness, knowing my opponent and if/how they can be pushed off of a hand. It’s not about risking your stack on that flip or slight advantage hand; it’s about continuously winning the small pots, and little hands.

If you are playing good poker you will win hands at the showdown. If you are playing great poker you will win hands without a showdown."

You can see the full article at the link below:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/MTT-Tournament-Advice.html

Obviously, it works for him since he is a very successful player, but I have several questions:

1. Sure, this can work in a deep-stack tournament at a somewhat higher level (say stars sunday million where you start out with 10k chips at 25/50 blinds). With a lot of chips early, you have the chips to make plays and limp into pots. But what about a typical $11 dollar tourney at stars where you get 1500 chips at 10/20 and your typical opponent at the early stages ranges from a maniac to ZOMG A6s SOOTED!!!

I even remember reading some articles where the writer addressed this specific issue. He was saying that you will read about Daniel Negreanu and some other top players playing and advocating seeing a lot of flops and using their skill to outplay their opponents post-flop to pick up a lot of pots. At the same time, he said, you need to take into account that they are doing this with about 200BB in front of them and in a tournament where there are at least some people capable of clear thought. They would most likely not do it with 75BB in startnig chips in a 5-way limped pot, where at least half of the players are not capable of folding, which is the norm at the early stages of a typical online tournament. Plus with 75BB, you really do not have that much room for making plays.

Now, I am not follow the Aces-or fold type of strategy, and I will play good multiway hands when in position, but I try to avoid any complex poker for the first 2-3 levels of a typical tournament.

What is your guys' take on this? Do you play LAG style early to build a stack by winning a lot of smaller pots, or do you advocate TAG style early on. The main reason I am asking is because I simply do not have enough experience with MTTs, despite having made a couple of final tables in the 180-man SNGs and 2 other larger tournaments. Obviously, I am doing something right, but I am looking for ways to improve, and I wonder if this is one of the ways to more consistently build up a large stack at the early stages.

[JoeyJoJo Shabadu]

[ QUOTE ]
What is your guys' take on this? Do you play LAG style early to build a stack by winning a lot of smaller pots, or do you advocate TAG style early on. The main reason I am asking is because I simply do not have enough experience with MTTs, despite having made a couple of final tables in the 180-man SNGs and 2 other larger tournaments. Obviously, I am doing something right, but I am looking for ways to improve, and I wonder if this is one of the ways to more consistently build up a large stack at the early stages.

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I do play the early lag often... but I have to be at a passive table, and I'm probably more loose passive than loose aggressive. In otherwords I'm not stealing pots with 47o or raising with JTo very often because I've got a read on someone 15 minutes into the tourney when the blinds are 15/30 and I'm moved to my 3 table already. I will play position and bet at uncontested pots and wait for monsters to hit that cost nothing to see. Sometimes I'm doubled up sometimes i'm half stacked and have to clamp down.But I personally think that parapgraph of his is more bravado than brains the way it's worded or implied.... but that's just me.

[binions]

Depends on how fast the structure is. If you like to avoid post flop play in the early stages, then play fast structures.

I much prefer to play LAG in early stages and build my stack by playing small ball. So, I like slower structures.

[Sherman]

Summary of OP for those who might "tl;dr":

In low buy-in online MTTs where stacks are relatively short (max of 75BBs) should you limp with lots of hands to try to outplay your opponents post-flop?

My answer is no. Your intuition is correct. Most low-buyin online MTTs are far too shallow to do much speculating with marginal hands PF except at level 1 and sometimes level 2. But almost never by level 3 can you afford to be limping with lots of hands hoping to stack a villain. The stacks just aren't deep enough.

[binions]

[ QUOTE ]
Most low-buyin online MTTs are far too shallow to do much speculating with marginal hands PF except at level 1 and sometimes level 2. But almost never by level 3 can you afford to be limping with lots of hands hoping to stack a villain. The stacks just aren't deep enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good advice.

To me, deep stack is 100xBB+ Here, I will take a lot of flyers both in and out of position.

Medium is 50-100xBB. I tighten up alot out of position, but still take chances in position.

Average is 30-50xBB. Time for ABC poker out of position and attacking those who don't defend their blinds when we have position.

Shallow is 10xBB-30xBB. I am looking for all the blinds I can steal, and am not afraid of pushing all in here when the time is right.

Short is less than 10xBB. All in or fold.

[Sherman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Most low-buyin online MTTs are far too shallow to do much speculating with marginal hands PF except at level 1 and sometimes level 2. But almost never by level 3 can you afford to be limping with lots of hands hoping to stack a villain. The stacks just aren't deep enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good advice.

To me, deep stack is 100xBB+ Here, I will take a lot of flyers both in and out of position.

Medium is 50-100xBB. I tighten up alot out of position, but still take chances in position.

Average is 30-50xBB. Time for ABC poker out of position and attacking those who don't defend their blinds when we have position.

Shallow is 10xBB-30xBB. I am looking for all the blinds I can steal, and am not afraid of pushing all in here when the time is right.

Short is less than 10xBB. All in or fold.

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These guidelines seem pretty accurate to me as well.