2-7 triple draw at stars. This just doesn't seem right.

[train.]

I played some 2-7 triple draw at stars today. The following hand happened.

I disconnected before the first draw, timed out and was treated as all-in. I reconnected in time for the first draw and was allowed to draw without having to ever call a bet. Now maybe my opponent didn't want to bet, but it appears as if he wasn't given the opportunity. ( He did raise pre draw and I didn't have to call the raise.) I was basically given a freeroll to win a pot that I would have never contested for. This just seems wrong to me.

PokerStars Game #10198565268: Triple Draw 2-7 Lowball Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2007/05/31 - 12:18:53 (ET)
Table 'Libra IV' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 2: utcolforbin ($28.85 in chips)
Seat 3: dkpiatt ($10.60 in chips)
Seat 4: geauxcat ($28.05 in chips)
Seat 5: BEAUXDURIO ($16.50 in chips)
Seat 6: ousmane ($19.95 in chips)
dkpiatt: posts small blind $0.25
geauxcat: posts big blind $0.50
*** DEALING HANDS ***
Dealt to geauxcat [6d Ts Ks 8s 7s]
BEAUXDURIO: folds
ousmane: folds
utcolforbin: folds
dkpiatt: raises $0.50 to $1
geauxcat has timed out while being disconnected
geauxcat is being treated as all-in

*** FIRST DRAW ***
dkpiatt: discards 2 cards
geauxcat: discards 2 cards [Ts Ks]
Dealt to geauxcat [6d 8s 7s] [7h Kc]
*** SECOND DRAW ***
dkpiatt: discards 1 card
geauxcat: discards 2 cards [7h Kc]
Dealt to geauxcat [6d 8s 7s] [4d 6c]
*** THIRD DRAW ***
dkpiatt: discards 2 cards
geauxcat: discards 1 card [6c]
Dealt to geauxcat [6d 8s 7s 4d] [2d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
dkpiatt: shows [4s 3d 5d 5h 3c] (Lo: two pair, Fives and Threes)
geauxcat: shows [6d 4d 2d 8s 7s] (Lo: 8,7,6,4,2)
geauxcat collected $0.95 from pot
geauxcat is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1 | Rake $0.05
Seat 2: utcolforbin (button) folded before the Draw (didn't bet)
Seat 3: dkpiatt (small blind) showed [4s 3d 5d 5h 3c] and lost with Lo: two pair, Fives and Threes
Seat 4: geauxcat (big blind) showed [6d 4d 2d 8s 7s] and won ($0.95) with Lo: 8,7,6,4,2
Seat 5: BEAUXDURIO folded before the Draw (didn't bet)
Seat 6: ousmane folded before the Draw (didn't bet)



Here is the emails between stars and myself.

Hello Bobby,

Thank you very much for sending this clarification and your comments about
this matter.

Regards,

Erick
PokerStars Support Team


----- Original Message -----
From:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 2007/05/31 18:55:32
To: support@pokerstars.com
Subject: Re: disconnect at 2-7 triple draw

>I wasn't complaining about being allin. And I know how it works. I was
>stating that I didn't think it was fair to allow me to continue to draw to
>the best hand without commiting any more chips to the pot.
>
>I was all in. I was allowed to make at least 2 more draws, maybe 3, i
don't
>remember at what point i reconnected. I don't think I should have been
>allowed to discard cards from my hand and draw to replace them once I was
>considered allin.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "PokerStars Support" <support@pokerstars.com>
>To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 2:21 PM
>Subject: RE: disconnect at 2-7 triple draw
>
>
>> Hello Bobby,
>>
>> Thank you for your email.
>>
>> A disconnected player who times out is merely treated as all-in, not
>> actually placed all-in for the full amount of his stack. Here is a
>> simple example:
>>
>> Three players, A, B and C, are playing. All of these players have $100
>> in their stack. On the flop, A bets $5. B now loses his connection and
>> is placed all-in. C calls the $5. B's hand is not folded, nor does he
>> call the $5 bet. A and C now play for the side pot, as if B were all-
>> in (even though he technically still has chips in front of him). At
>> the showdown, if B has the best hand, he is eligible for the main pot,
>> but not the side pot, which A or C must win or split.
>>
>> All-ins are designed to protect players in the event that their
>> connection to PokerStars fails. Note that any connected player who
>> fails to act on his hand in time will simply have his hand folded.
>>
>> I hope this clarifies the all-in rule for you. Thank you for playing
>> at PokerStars.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Erick
>> PokerStars Support Team
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Sent: 2007/05/31 12:39:26
>> To: support@pokerstars.com
>> Subject: disconnect at 2-7 triple draw
>>
>>>I disconnected at the beginning of a hand of 2-7 triple draw today and
was
>> treated as allin. I then reconnected almost immediately and was allowed
>> to
>> make my 3 draws without having to bet or call any bets. That just
doesn't
>> seem fair to the other players.
>>
>
>
>

[2461Badugi]

I've been amazed at how this causes virtually no disconnect abuse. But somehow it doesn't, so I don't worry about it. I haven't even heard complaints about it in PL/NL.

[FatalError]

what amazes me more is your opponent drew 1 to a pair

[Mike Haven]

Isn't a disconnect-all in the same in Hold'em?

If you accidentally disconnect for a minute after you are dealt your hole cards, you are considered as all in, but a side-pot is created and you still select your best five from the full seven cards. (In effect, you have been given two or three free "draws" to beat the other guy.)

I would think you that you are given only one or two disconnect-all ins per day, as a "safety-valve" for honest players who legitimately accidentally disconnect, so while it can be abused once or twice per day by cheats, there is no major problem, especially in a Limit game.

[TheIrishThug]

[ QUOTE ]
If you accidentally disconnect for a minute after you are dealt your hole cards, you are considered as all in, but a side-pot is created and you still select your best five from the full seven cards. (In effect, you have been given two or three free "draws" to beat the other guy.)

[/ QUOTE ]

The difference is that in Hold'em, once you are all-in, you no longer have control of the hand. You are at the mercy of the cards. In this hand, he could actively make strategic decisions on how to continue playing the hand.

If you reconnect, should the forced all-in be lifted?

[Mike Haven]

I take your point.

I don't really know the game. How do they treat legitimate all ins, when a player bets his last chip?

If he is allowed to protect his investment in the side-pot by making strategic draws, then I don't think that there's any argument that the legitimate accidental-disconnect all in should be treated exactly similarly, if he happens to reconnect during play of the hand.

If the legitimate all in has to play his cards as they stand at the time he goes all in, then obviously the disconnect should receive no more cards, whether or not he reconnects.

Whether the game's fundamental rules should be changed is a matter for debate elsewhere.

[2461Badugi]

[ QUOTE ]

I don't really know the game. How do they treat legitimate all ins, when a player bets his last chip?


[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly this way, and it would be really awful to make him stop drawing at that point.

[train.]

[ QUOTE ]

I don't really know the game. How do they treat legitimate all ins, when a player bets his last chip?

If he is allowed to protect his investment in the side-pot by making strategic draws, then I don't think that there's any argument that the legitimate accidental-disconnect all in should be treated exactly similarly, if he happens to reconnect during play of the hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

This makes sense. I hadn't thought of it that way. And I don't think there is a limit on disconnect protection at stars. There might be but I've never noticed it.