Bellagio 10 20 NL against solid regular

[88Orange]

Hey All -

Neon - I bet you never would have thought you would see this day!

I have lurked here for a while and have enjoyed some great insight from several of you . . . ElDiablo, R.B.K., ML4L, cero z, BobboFitos, etc. . . . thanks.

I, too, was at Bellagio last weekend playing 10 20 NL and 25 50 NL. I was not there on Saturday day or night, but i had a hand that I would like to review with you:

Monday morning, 10 20 NL game is great: one solid regular, Tom, stocky, 60ish, friendly, sits with about $25K in seat 8 in the main game daily. A couple of fair players and the rest are poor or very poor players. I am in my 30s and am the youngest player by 15 years. My image is pretty tight, but I had recently moved a guy all in with slightly improper odds on the nut flush draw, knowing that he would call [he didn't have much left], for meta-game purposes (I hit it; he looked very surprised at my 'stupid' play, and the feeling I got from the table was that they thought I was on the wild side. Most pots are about four player limpers. About ten hands ago, however, Tom took his second bad beat and has been tilting, trying to buy pots post-flop and on the flop.

I ($10,000) am in the BB with 10spades 8diamonds. UTG +1 limps, Tom limps ($15,000), cut-off limps, Button raises to 80, I call (I normally would not call with 10 8 off oop, but anticipating that the rest will call, too, I think it is +EV given the lineup). The rest call. The pot is ($400).

The flop came:

10 :club: 8 :club: 5 :diamond:

I check, anticipating being able to check-raise. No such luck . . . it gets checked around. The turn is:

3 :spade:

I lead for $400. UTG+1 folds. Tom raises to $1800.00. It is folded to me.

All thoughts appreciated.

As a side note, I enjoyed ML4L's tales from the Bellagio felt and so I relate two stories and see if any of you have info on this player, who is a cocky Asian named Peter (JC Tran and Eric A. knew him). After seeing him play one hand in a lag-tard manner, I raise in EP to $150 with 10s in the 25 50 NL game. Three people call and Peter makes it $700 in the SB. I call; the others fold. Peter makes sure I know he is betting $1500 in the dark. The flop comes with three undercards and I move Peter all in. He calls for about $3200 more. Two more undercards come. I show; he mucks his hand. Re-Buys for $20K.

Hand 2: A very aggressive Finnish player (they were calling him the Swede) ($20,000) sat to Peter's ($20,000) right and straddled. Peter made it $400 UTG and one person called. The Swede made it $2000. Peter made it $5000. The Swede folded. Peter showed the 4 :diamond: and declared, "NO ONE make move on Peter! (pause) Only PETER make move on Peter!"

Good stuff.

[mikech]

hey john, i saw your post in the "crazy fold" thread, thought i'd look at some of your past posts, and came across this. surprised that it never received any feedback, as i find it pretty interesting. anyway, i know the tom that you're referring to, and i've played many many hours with him. unless he played very differently a year ago from how he plays now, i think you're almost always looking at a set here. yes, he's capable of occasional moves, but if he does it's usually preflop or on the flop, very rarely on later streets. he doesn't have 2pr, cuz he's not playing any possible 2pr other than T8s (and if he decided to play some junk like 85s or 53s in ep he'd have come in for a raise himself), and if he has a combo draw he might've raised a bet on the flop but i think it unlikely on the turn.

i advise a fold but in reality i never fold top2 on a no-flush, no-straight board, so i'd probly call the turn raise and re-eval the river. if tom pots the river again i def fold.

[luckyjimm]

RESULTS????

[ahnuld]

lead the flop this deep and hope someone raises you with TPTK type since you have a wild image

[The Dingo]

[ QUOTE ]
Good post,

Hard to put Tom on much here, set 5s unlikely given flop check down with fl draw, maybe A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] but from the intel seems like you are good here. I would repop to $5k here or just smooth call and bet river on a brick.. thoughts ?

This game used to be really tough, Al Krux, Keith Quilty, Lock, Turner, Mossimoto etc used to play this...will have to check it out when we return..

Does the Asian guy wear a LA baseball cap all the time, if so I played with him a lot, he is a bit crazy, called a massive overbet by me when I held top set with top pair weak kicker but he will call down all the way if he senses any bluff tendency...

[/ QUOTE ]

With Tom he may have been sitting on the flop with 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] etc, so you may be drawing thin here...and painful as you know you should have bet flop and here now I would probably fold....sad as it sounds

[88Orange]

I remembered an insightful post, I think by RBK, about inducing a certain action based on a play you make or an image you have created. Once induced, it would be foolish to then fold to the action you deliberately created.

Tom seemed pretty tight, even if steamed a bit, and it didnt appear as if he would have pushed a draw on the turn in this instance. Although I could not put him on a hand, I thought that with the image I had created, he may very well be raising me with a mediocre holding believing that he was value raising the idiot who overvalues hands (me).

I called his raise and looked to get more information on the river. I believe the river was a complete brick. The action went check-check. I showed my hand and Tom winced and folded.

The wince and fold expression to me usually translates into "I was bluffing but I must act as if somehow I had a very good holding that was just under the winner's holding." So, after that act, I thought he was semi-bluffing a draw against me.

Having played with Tom a few more times since my initial post, I now think he makes more moves than I gave him credit for at the time, so a semi-bluff makes more sense now that it did to me then.

[88Orange]

"Does the Asian guy wear a LA baseball cap all the time, if so I played with him a lot, he is a bit crazy, called a massive overbet by me when I held top set with top pair weak kicker but he will call down all the way if he senses any bluff tendency..."

I don't think this was the guy. This Asian was more of a fashion-dressing Asian, and very, very cocky. The "Swede" in the hand I now know to be Tom Wahlroos.

[ahnuld]

88orange, care to explain why you didnt go for the flop lead?