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#1
05-22-2007, 12:33 AM
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flush on the river, call or 3bet?
Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game Limit: $0.50/$1 10 players Converter Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, Hero checks. Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5SB, 5 players) SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+2 raises all-in $0.6</font>, CO calls, SB folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, CO folds. Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5.7BB, 2 players + 1 all-in - Main pot: 4.9BB, Sidepot 1: 0.8BB) <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls. River: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (7.7BB, 2 players + 1 all-in - Main pot: 4.9BB, Sidepot 1: 2.8BB) <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000"> It is very hard to put villan on a flush since i hold 2 already. I really want to 3bet the river, call or 3bet? 
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#2
05-22-2007, 12:39 AM
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Re: flush on the river, call or 3bet?
Turn bet looks pretty bad into an empty sidepot?
I'd call the river. He bet the flop & called down then raised exactly as a FD would. I can't see a runner runner straight or river'd QJ more often period, much less so much more often that you can withstand losing 4 bets when you're beat.
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#4
05-22-2007, 06:08 AM
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Re: flush on the river, call or 3bet?
Turn bet is standard if you don't have an all-in player. You have flush outs plus a gutshot to the nuts. Since there is an all-in player, there is no use to bet into such a small pot since the UTG+1 will very rarely fold due to the size of the pot. I'd raise the river.
If you raise, you will win two bets (his original raise and his call) but will lose three bets when behind (he 3-bets a higher flush). Thus, if you think you are ahead more than 60% of the time, raising has a positive EV.
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#6
05-22-2007, 06:15 AM
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Re: flush on the river, call or 3bet?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Turn bet is standard if you don't have an all-in player. [/ QUOTE ] No. [/ QUOTE ] How is this not a textbook semibluff when a semi-scare card comes?
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#7
05-22-2007, 06:24 AM
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Re: flush on the river, call or 3bet?
Because first, you don't bluff ANYONE at .5/1.
But second, you have outs, a whole load of them. So you have to call a raise in each and every single case. Also, I don'T think that T is so very scary for him - it probably helps him more often than not - by improving his draw, or pairing him up or something. T, J, 9, usually hit some open-limpers range up front.
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#9
05-22-2007, 06:42 AM
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Re: flush on the river, call or 3bet?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Turn bet is standard if you don't have an all-in player. [/ QUOTE ] No. [/ QUOTE ] Yes. [/ QUOTE ] lol. Requesting detailed EV calculations of how a turn bet is better than c/calling after two villains have called our flop 3bet on this board.
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#10
05-22-2007, 06:56 AM
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Re: flush on the river, call or 3bet?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Turn bet is standard if you don't have an all-in player. [/ QUOTE ] No. [/ QUOTE ] Yes. [/ QUOTE ] lol. Requesting detailed EV calculations of how a turn bet is better than c/calling after two villains have called our flop 3bet on this board. [/ QUOTE ] Without the UTG+2, you have one opponent. If think that he is never folding, they you're correct that the bet is bad. The pot is somethink like 5BB without a UTG+2 since the raise of $.1 doesn't exist. I imagine the CO would've called one more (we could only have raised, not 3-bet without the SB). Assuming the CO will fold to ever bet on the turn, we invest 1BB to try to win 5BB. We lose one BB 75% of the time he calls, we win at least 6BB 25% of the time he calls and win 5BB everytime he folds. P(call)*(0.75)*(-1)+P(call)*(.25)*(6)+(1-P(call))*(5) If he calls only 94% of the time, we still show profit.
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