Some Hands From a Bad Session

Bill Ivey · #1 05-14-2007, 02:37 AM

Hello,

I wanted to get some input and constructive criticism from 2+2 on a few hands from a recent 5/10NL shorthanded session on stars.

1.

I have seen this play multiple times by weak-passive players... How should I handle it?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

SB ($605)
BB ($1312.55)
Hero ($1000)
Button ($906.95)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $40, 1 fold, SB calls $35, 1 fold.

Flop: ($90) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $30, Hero raises to $120, SB calls $90.

Turn: ($330) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $50, Hero

2.

Here is another similar hand. This was one of the last hands of my session, and I just got stacked the hand before on a different table, so I was tilting. MP was a weak/passive player: 37/4.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

SB ($2598.40)
BB ($2289.50)
Hero ($1127)
MP ($1461.40)
Button ($2292.05)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $40, MP calls $40, 2 folds, BB calls $30.

Flop: ($125) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $90, MP folds, BB raises to $180, Hero raises to $430, BB calls $250.

Turn: ($985) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $100, Hero raises to $657

3.

Villain is MezmerizePLZ, and he is 52/37. Very loose-aggressive.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG ($1001)
MP ($185.25)
Hero ($1166)
Button ($469)
SB ($839.30)
BB ($2422.55)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises to $30, 1 fold, Hero calls $30, 3 folds.

Flop: ($75) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets $70, Hero raises to $220, UTG raises to $370, Hero

4.

Villain is DerekJC995

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG ($1243)
MP ($995)
Hero ($2255)
SB ($4944.60)
BB ($1499.20)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises to $40, Hero raises to $120, 2 folds, MP calls $80.

Flop: ($255) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $150, MP raises to $875, Hero

5.

Villain is passive 28/7. I just wasn't sure what to do here.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

Button ($1000)
SB ($990)
BB ($2013.40)
UTG ($843)
MP ($1451.20)
Hero ($1491)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to $40, 1 fold, SB calls $35, 1 fold.

Flop: ($90) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $70, SB calls $70.

Turn: ($230) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $150, SB calls $150.

River: ($530) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero

6.

Villain is very loose-passive and I have been in a lot of small pots with him. Mainly raising his limps and c-betting most flops. He has called my flop bet, then check-folded the turn a couple times already.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

Button ($1564.75)
Hero ($1293)
BB ($4862.75)
UTG ($1978.50)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls $10, Button raises to $50, Hero raises to $180, 1 fold, UTG calls $170, Button folds.

Flop: ($420) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $270, UTG calls $270.

Turn: ($960) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $843 (All-In)

Bigfoot · #2 05-14-2007, 03:54 AM

Hand 1 - Well it doesn't help, but in this spot he's either going to be incredibly weak, or very strong. You kinda have to know which type he is to be doing this. If he's unknown I'd probably just call this turn and see what he does on the river. So in the future you'll have a better read on him and know how to handle future situations vs. him.

Hand 2 - I think this sucks. Fold to his stupid turn bet. Whatever he called your re-raise with on the flop he should be willing to felt on a blank turn like this. Especially after making that weird bet. He has to think there's no way you could ever fold anything getting 10:1 or whatever it is you're getting on the turn.

Hand 3 - I dont like your flop raise if you plan on folding to a 3 bet from him. Based on your flop raise, I would call his 3-bet with the intention of calling a turn push/bet and checking behind if he checks.

Hand 4 - Fold. There aren't very many hands that you beat he could have and be doing this for value with (at the same time). So he'd have to be bluffing here a high % of the time to make a call right.

Hand 5 - Comes down to whether or not he would call with a pair of Ks. If he can fold a pair of Ks I would shove. If he can't I would just check behind because you will beat his other draws and just end up stacking off when he had Kx.

Hand 6 - Check/fold flop. Check/fold turn. As bad as I think your flop bet is, your turn shove is horrible. He looks super strong based on his pf/flop play and on the off chance he's weak he would certainly check behind and give you a free card to hit your draw and at least give you a chance to win the pot after you botched the flop.

spino1i · #3 05-14-2007, 04:09 AM

Hand #1: I wimp out and call. Generally when people make a small donk/call, then small donk again, they never fold. Just something I noticed. You should call though for your 6 outs which are probably good.

Hand #2: trying to bluff here is a bad idea. When a weak/passive player minraises you like that oop on a dry board, he's got a strong hand (probably a set) and isnt going anywhere. Fold flop.

Hand #3: Call and call shove on the turn. If he checks on the turn, shove.

Hand #4: Fold

Hand #5: Dont bluff. This would be a great spot to bluff against an aware player, but this looks like a calling station fish that will look you up with a J here.

Hand #6: That cold call means really big trouble. People dont cold there without a very strong hand, and given his passive nature, he could be trying to trap you. I just check/fold the flop.

soah · #4 05-14-2007, 04:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
That cold call means really big trouble. People dont cold there without a very strong hand

[/ QUOTE ]

In the past couple days I've seen a full-stack player coldcall a raise and reraise from the sb with T9o, and another player did the same thing with JTo and then proceeded to call a fourbet. Total pf investment was about 36bb.

spino1i · #5 05-14-2007, 05:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That cold call means really big trouble. People dont cold there without a very strong hand

[/ QUOTE ]

In the past couple days I've seen a full-stack player coldcall a raise and reraise from the sb with T9o, and another player did the same thing with JTo and then proceeded to call a fourbet. Total pf investment was about 36bb.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeh ok thats true, but these sorts of donks give off warning signs that they are capable of this retarded of a play. I mean, plus, if they call with crap and called the flop bet they probably paired up and arent going anywhere. The same reason they call the turn bet with some small pair is why they called the pre-flop 3-bet with crap in the first place.

soah · #6 05-14-2007, 05:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
yeh ok thats true, but these sorts of donks give off warning signs that they are capable of this retarded of a play.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is very loose-passive

[/ QUOTE ]

That's enough for me. I think a flop bet is fine, it's amazing how many donks out there will make a pf call without getting proper odds to draw at anything, and then fold the flop. Maybe he wanted to flop a set regardless of cost, but will fold now, or maybe he has AK, or maybe just random trash. If he was calling with unpaired cards then this is a great flop to bluff at because there's really only one card to worry about.

duh · #7 05-14-2007, 05:56 AM

Hands 1 & 2: they are weak, but not folding.

Hand 3: Call. Memerize is super duper aggro. He can have all kinds of hands here. Raising folds out hands you beat. Felting is fine, but I think you have to let him be the one to put the $$ in.

Hand 4: fold
Hand 5: Shove
Hand 6: Good.

FiSheYe · #8 05-14-2007, 02:25 PM

Hand 1: Arkward but I think you have to call and reevaluate the River. It really helps to know his tendencies. If he bets his midpairs again on the river you can bluff shove if he will only do it with weaker holdings than TP and fold these. If you hit you should mostly only call unless he is a very loose station. In most cases call turn and fold river to a good sized bet, in super rare occasions you can call the river if you have a very good read that he does it with straightdraws and so on (78s).. This is a spot where general advises might not help that much, as you stated he is weak passive, so these players have tendencies to do it with TPTK+ or weakish hands, find out what sort of player he is and adjust accordingly. Due to his smaller stack I prefer a weak/passive approach in this hand (most of the shortstackers do this bets to get money into the pot and induce bluffs, so the have hands they are willing to call with)

Hand 2: I think a flop c/f is best here,
if you reraise his flop bet, then fold to a reraise.. If you reraise his reraise then plz either only call the turn if he is capable to donk there with nothing, otherwise just muck it there. You tried to make him fold the best hand twice, he didn't bite, what do you expect on the river with a raise that is not even potsized ? I think this hand is misplayed in way too many ways especially because you pointed out he is weak passive.

Hand 3: I think an allin on the flop is not optimal. He is agressive and might try to bluff you off your hand, do not deny him this illusion. call the flop and call an allin. If he checks the turn then it might become tricky, I would bet/call a lot to deny him a chance to hit whatever he had but if he will bluff super many hands against a check behind then you might c/b on the turn.

Hand 4: Unless you have special history with him, I would prefer a fold. If he knows you will fold here almost always, then I prefer a call because he might be good enough to know that you will fold out almost any overpair especially TT-QQ. As played fold seems superior.

Hand 5: I prefer a bigger turn bet and a check behind on the river but you might also bet big / shove on the river if you know he is capable to fold any jack and some weakish Kings. The problem with the River bet is that you might have a busted flushdraw and might get looked up lightly. It really comes down to his tendencies and your image.

Hand 6: I really don't mind the pf raise, as it is a standard for me but you could have folded there without losing money imho. As played you need to know if he limp calls weaker Pocketpairs/overcards than AQ/ TT, if this is the case and he will muck them on the flop, bet. If he doesn't fold 44-99 on this flop then c/f the flop because you will need to invest way too many chips on the turn to make him fold these hands. If his pf range is tighter than c/f this flop, no matter what he will have you're crushed most of the times and even if he calls the contibet TT-JJ he might eventually call your allin because you have 2nd barrell so much against him in the past.

I think you spewed way too many chips in a lot of these hands.

RikkiDee · #9 05-14-2007, 07:26 PM

I honestly don't get the turn bet in hand 5. You are playing against a passive player on a ridiculously draw heavy board that any pair/oesd/fd/gut/combo is taking one off against your 2/3 pot bet.

I suppose the only reason to 2 barrel here would be to setup a semi-convincing three barrel on river, but I don't see that being a more EV play than just checking turn with your pair/FD.

MezmerizePLZ · #10 05-17-2007, 11:32 PM

1. Call 95 %/ shove 5%
2. I hate it, fold to the minraise on the flop IMO.. if u 3-bet the flop i don't mind this line if u know the villain.
3. lol i googled my name so this is why im even posting stuff here, fold to villain he doedsn't know how to bluff
4. Really depends on history between you two, but i call here mostly
5. Check, i find i get looked up here alot by Jx
6. Depends how often he raises pF, but after i RR PF i take your same line.