electronic BJ machines- real BJ, or just BS?

[Lottery Larry]

From another post, TT suggested I repost here:

"This is one question I have- are ALL blackjack machines REALLY blackjack as we understand it? Or are some of them video dressing for another type of slots machine?

I'm thinking particularly about the Class II machines that some manufacturers are supposedly making for Indian casinos.

Anyone know? "

It would be very easy to set up a RNG to be the muscle behind the game and link hand combinations to that, rather than the cards. My suspicions are that the Class II machines would have to be exactly that, to be considered Class II (if I understand the term correctly).

Experts?

[cardcounter0]

By law, for the game to be in Nevada, or from a maker that supplies Nevada games, and it uses cards as a symbol, then the RNG has to make the cards behave like real cards from a physical deck. So to be dealt an ACE, you have a 4/52 chance of getting one, etc.

Off-brand games, from a maker that does not supply Nevada markets, on an Indian reservation, who knows?

[CORed]

Most blackjack machines I've seen only pay even money for blackjack, so, even if the deal is honest, they still suck.

There used to be a blackjack machine at one of the little hole-in-the-wall casinos in Blackhawk that was a single deck 3:2 BJ S16, double any, NDAS, just about 0 EV. This being Colorado, the max bet was $5. The catch was that on an odd dollar bet, the BJ payout got shorted 50 cents (this machine used only $1 slot tokens, no quarters or halves). I used to play this for fun, playing two spots and making $2 or $4 bets. This was a big machine with multiple CRT displays and 5 or 6 spots. There was one CRT for the dealer and one for each player spot. It was shuffled every hand, so you couldn't really count, but if you were playing 2 spots, or somebody else was playing and you could see their display, you could make a +EV insurance bet every now and then. One evening, I hit a good run and won about $300 dollars from it.

Most of the people who played it made $1 bets, so they were only getting even money on their blackjacks.

[*TT*]

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It was shuffled every hand, so you couldn't really count, but if you were playing 2 spots, or somebody else was playing and you could see their display, you could make a +EV insurance bet every now and then. One evening, I hit a good run and won about $300 dollars from it.

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I could be wrong, but I dont think your insurance bet was ever +EV. Knowing the opponents cards or playing multiple seats doesnt give you a big enough advantage to make the insurance bets +EV.

[cardcounter0]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It was shuffled every hand, so you couldn't really count, but if you were playing 2 spots, or somebody else was playing and you could see their display, you could make a +EV insurance bet every now and then. One evening, I hit a good run and won about $300 dollars from it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I could be wrong, but I dont think your insurance bet was ever +EV. Knowing the opponents cards or playing multiple seats doesnt give you a big enough advantage to make the insurance bets +EV.

[/ QUOTE ]
In single deck off the top, playing two spots, if there are no 10s showing, then insurance is +EV.

With three spots, one 10 can be dealt, if there are not other 10s, then insurance is +EV

Count each 10 value card as -2, each non ten card as +1, for single deck anytime the count is +4 or more, take insurance.

In the first example given, the count is +5. In the second, the count is +4.

[Pokeraddict]

There are some old BJ Blitz machines that are still in Deadwood that appear to deal a fair game. I've sat down and figured out whether they bust correctly and whether the cards appeared to deal players and dealers randomly, it passed. These games used to also be in Cherokee NC and I saw them a couple of times in LV at the Luxor and another place I don't recall. Cherokee NC also had a game called Black Gold on a Pot o Gold. These were only HU single deck and they are legit as I know the back end of these machines.

Back when VP was legal in Georgia and SC there were machines made by Cadillac Jack's that could be rigged. You could install a patch that would make the dealer take seconds much like Casino Bar got caught doing. As said before if you are playing in Nevada or a machine made in Nevada the game is legit.

[Toonces]

Has anyone still seen machines that pay 3-2 on BJ? I used to play them all the time...they are nice ways to earn comps faster than at tables.

[Pokeraddict]

[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone still seen machines that pay 3-2 on BJ? I used to play them all the time...they are nice ways to earn comps faster than at tables.

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In LV the last one I was was at Luxor but it's gone now. There are two in Deadwood and about 15 heads up machines at Cherokee NC. The Cherokee machines let you hit split aces and you win a 6 card charlie. If the dealer gets 6 cards he has to stay. Dealer also stays on soft 17 and you can double 9,10 or 11. It's the best video BJ game I've seen. It's also a great way to get Diamond status with Harrah's which gets you spoiled in LV. The drawback is there is no alcohol at Cherokee.