AK push preflop - standard?

[danicalifornia]

Both villains were as donkish as one could be

This should actually answer the question to my topic itself, but .. oh well

Remember that SB cold called my 3bet

Full Tilt Poker
$0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
6 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
BTN: $49.35
SB: $31.9
BB: $63.95
UTG: $30.65
MP: $13.30
Hero (CO): $50

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($0.75, 6 players)
UTG calls $0.50, <font color="red">MP raises to $2</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $7.25</font>, BTN folds, SB calls $7, BB folds, UTG folds, <font color="red">MP raises all in to $13.30</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises all in to $50</font>, SB calls all in for $24.90
Uncalled bet of $17.85 returned to Hero

[tminus]

i like reraising here but i dont want to race three-handed like this. if we assume they'll both felt any broadway/any pair, AKo holds up 40% of the time and youre getting about 2:1

=((13.3+31.9)*0.4)+(-(13.3+31.9)*0.6)
= -9.04

[Bowlboy]

Given that they are both real donkish I expect to see a lot of PP's other than AA or KK here. So given that it's 3 way your overall equity is good enough to felt this preflop so nice hand.

[tminus]

sorry, i dont follow your reasoning. its a losing proposition

[Bowlboy]

[ QUOTE ]
sorry, i dont follow your reasoning. its a losing proposition

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, assume you were in a 3way pot and were dealt AK. You could see your opponents cards with your xray vision and sees that one opponent has JJ and the other QQ. JJ open shoves, QQ calls. You're a coinflip against both their hands. If you spike an Ace or King you win a lot of the time. You're investing 1/3 of the money going into the pot but coming out a winner more than 1/3 of the time so you have a pot equity edge against the two hands.

I'm not too big on theory or math so if I'm wrong here somebody correct me.

[Skleice]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
sorry, i dont follow your reasoning. its a losing proposition

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, assume you were in a 3way pot and were dealt AK. You could see your opponents cards with your xray vision and sees that one opponent has JJ and the other QQ. JJ open shoves, QQ calls. You're a coinflip against both their hands. If you spike an Ace or King you win a lot of the time. You're investing 1/3 of the money going into the pot but coming out a winner more than 1/3 of the time so you have a pot equity edge against the two hands.

I'm not too big on theory or math so if I'm wrong here somebody correct me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I ran the numbers of your particular situation...QQ vs. JJ vs. AK. AK wins 35% of the time (give or take a % for suits).

[tminus]

OP said they're both donkeys so we can put them on a wide range of calling hands. i did the math above and its -EV $9 to call here

[Bowlboy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
sorry, i dont follow your reasoning. its a losing proposition

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, assume you were in a 3way pot and were dealt AK. You could see your opponents cards with your xray vision and sees that one opponent has JJ and the other QQ. JJ open shoves, QQ calls. You're a coinflip against both their hands. If you spike an Ace or King you win a lot of the time. You're investing 1/3 of the money going into the pot but coming out a winner more than 1/3 of the time so you have a pot equity edge against the two hands.

I'm not too big on theory or math so if I'm wrong here somebody correct me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I ran the numbers of your particular situation...QQ vs. JJ vs. AK. AK wins 35% of the time (give or take a % for suits).

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought it would be a bit higher than that. My pokerstove is broken though. Thanks.

[ocdscale]

Off topic, but that is correct, although you're a slight underdog to any one PP, adding another PP (provided it's they're not AA/KK) doesn't decrease your equity that much, and actually makes you happy to get in.

You're 45% against JJ
But ~38% against JJ+QQ (JJ has ~16.5%, QQ has 43.5%). You have less equity, but are getting better odds (since it's three way). Makes the call a lot better.

That said, the problem is you can't see their cards.
If one of them has Ax, it drops your odds to 35% against the remaining PP.
Lets give a range to the short stack of JJ+, AQ+
SB gets 99+ and AK (really wide range here)
And you have just 29% equity.

The shove is okay to isolate shortstack, when SB calls, I'm not to happy, but it can't be helped.

[Supwithbates]

[ QUOTE ]
sorry, i dont follow your reasoning. its a losing proposition

[/ QUOTE ]
it's a losing proposition because your math is wrong
you basically made it a headsup pot for your calculation, making hero have to risk 50$, therein risking his money twice when he only has to risk it once.

Fix this and try again