flopped 2 pair, family pot

[Sebastian Knight]

FTP 2/4 4-handed Wonderful loose passive game.

UTG 55/6/1.3
UTG+1 unknown
CO 26/15/1.75
Btn 66/19/1.75
BB 21/16/1.4

Hero is SB with J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

UTG+1 posts
UTG limps
UTG+1 checks
CO limps
Btn limps
Hero completes
BB raises
five calls

6 players 12 SB
Flop is J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

hero bets
BB calls
UTG raises
UTG+1 folds
CO calls
Btn folds
Hero 3-bets
BB calls 2
UTG calls
CO calls

I made the initial bet hoping for a raise from BB to thin the field. Have to try to win this one. My 3-bet was made in the hope of driving out BB but in retrospect I think this is a mistake since he's getting the right price to come along if he has KK or QQ. I think there's a good chance UTG is on a draw.

4 players 12 BB
Turn is 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]]

Hero bets
BB calls
UTG calls
CO calls

I have no idea what's right here.

4 players 16 BB
River is 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]]

Hero bets ...

Planning to fold to a raise.

Comments on all streets appreciated.
SK

[Second Level]

I think you should definately try to pick off a bluff here, since the flush missed. I don't like the bet because the pot is so big its hard to get away from it if raised.

[yourface]

checkraise flop. you have sick relative position and can probably trap a big part of the field for 2 bets.

[Sebastian Knight]

This hand has been driving me nuts. The salient facts IMO are we got to the flop with huge pot and a hand that is likely good but very vulnerable on a draw-heavy board. It seems to me that protecting my hand is paramount -- I don't need to build this pot, I need to try to win it.

I'm still sold on leading the flop as the best way to reduce the field. Once that fails, I don't see much use in my flop 3-bet. IMO, most likely hands for BB are AK, AQ, and pairs -- probably KK or QQ but (before his call of my 3-bet) 99, 88, and maybe 77 are possible and the last three are the only ones he'll fold and I'd just as soon he put in another bet with one of those. I'm pretty confident in my read on UTG. Probably has a draw, but might be loose enough to hump it with Ax. AJ or AT no way -- would have raised preflop in a heartbeat. I figure cutoff for Ax (probably not AT or AJ) or a draw or some sort of pair with gutshot combo such as QJs.

I'm wondering whether a better line isn't just to call the flop raise planning to check any turn except a J or T. If turn is A, c/f. If turn is K or Q or a heart, c/c as long as I'm getting the odds to draw to my boat. Otherwise c/r. If the bet comes from UTG or CO this may protect my hand from BB's river draws. If it gets checked around, all is not lost -- for one thing, I still have a draw to a boat that is almost surely the nuts. If I hit the boat, lead the river, otherwise c/c anything except A, K, Q. If a heart comes, I'm in a tough spot and I'll call down and probably lose, but my actual line of play did nothing to protect me from this problem.
SK

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
checkraise flop. you have sick relative position and can probably trap a big part of the field for 2 bets.

[/ QUOTE ]



oh yeah, I definitely want to cap this flop 10 ways with bottom two on a AJT flush draw board vs. a prf in a raised pot. retarded.

[yourface]

it would be nice to protect our hand here but not too likely to work imo. even if BB raises our lead the loose passives are getting 7.5+:1 and are definately not folding any pair or any draw (inc gutters). I think there is a more value in a c/r here, though we will need to play our hand carefully.

and thehip don't be a douche.