Who likes where golf is going?

[LimitGod]

This concept is something I have actually personally presented to PGA or America.

I call it the "Tiger Woods" effect.

Around the year 2000 the golf (Tiger Woods) boom was in full effect. More and more people were learning golf and the industry was becoming huge. At this time the PGA (in my opinion) overestimated the longevity of this "boom".

More and more courses were being built at a ridiculous rate and the PGA decided it HAD to find more and more PGA Professionals to run these facilities. So what did the PGA do? Well, it expanded on it's Professional Golf Managment (PGM) Programs. There are about 15 PGM Programs at various universities across the United States spanning from 30 students to 200 students. The PGA was looking for more Professionals, and they found them.

This enlies the problem.

The PGA has created a substandard golf Professional through all of this.

However, there is an even larger problem.

Golf is on a downswing, the infatuation with Tiger has subsided and the the Golf industry is still waiting on the childrern he affected to become buying members of the market. Look at is this way, a 6 yr old in 2000 is only 13 now, still way too young to affect the industry monetarily.

There became way too many courses for markets and subsequently the courses had to close. Because of this, many Professionals were out of jobs. This continues to happen daily (course closures) across the nation leaving PGA Professionals unemployed.

I for one cannot stand where the golf industry is going and what the PGA Professional has become.

That's about it, you can discuss if you want.

[Nick B.]

I think if you went to any board that is designed specifically for one thing, you will see a "sky is falling post" on everyone. Look at this site and poker. The poker boom is over posts have been going on for 4 years. I go to a bowling forum and it is the exact same way there.

What is your complaint exactly? Lots of courses were built so inferior golf pros were chosen and the golf professional value was diminished. But now courses are closing and the problem is PGA professionals are out of work? Doesn't part 2 solve part 1?

[LimitGod]

[ QUOTE ]
I think if you went to any board that is designed specifically for one thing, you will see a "sky is falling post" on everyone. Look at this site and poker. The poker boom is over posts have been going on for 4 years. I go to a bowling forum and it is the exact same way there.

What is your complaint exactly? Lots of courses were built so inferior golf pros were chosen and the golf professional value was diminished. But now courses are closing and the problem is PGA professionals are out of work? Doesn't part 2 solve part 1?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh, you would think so wouldn't you?

However, you would be making an incorrect assumption.

[mark_foley]

More courses and less golfers sounds good to me. Supply and demand what not.

[ghostface]

Luckily for the poeple that are dedicated to golf PGM schools see enormous transfer-out rates.

Of the 25 or so students that come into NC State as PGM students each year only about 10 graduate from the program because they feel it is too much work or they seek other career paths that pay more money.

I have to agree that most people that come from the PGM universities are going to be substandard PGA pros.

[thisnamedoesntfi]

I like where golf is going, the PGA is just like all other unions, struggling to maintain its grip. If you do quality work and know your stuff, I don't see a problem.

[BadBoyBenny]

I think the Tiger boom was a good thing. There are a lot of people like me (in college in 2000) that picked up golf recreationally who might not have done so if not for the Tiger boom. I don't think the effect was limited to young kids. Also I don't think having more courses and a varying quality of professionals is bad at all.

[MikeSmith]

i was in the tiger boom (14 years old during 97 masters) and now I am 24 and just now beginning my career and everyone else my age that played golf is doign so as well. Now that college life is over I plan on playing more golf than ever in the coming years

[HDPM]

I think there are all kinds of problems, although having too many club pros is easily solved. IMO many problems come from a combination of the failure to regulate equipment, the American golf culture, and to some extent the real estate market. Nothing to do about the last one. Participation in golf is stagnant from what I understand; for every person who picks up the game, somebody quits. Time and expense are major factors. And this starts the discussion of the American golf culture.

Golf is meant to be a pleasurable, although challenging sport, that is played on foot in 3 hours. Part of the challenge comes from dealing with natural conditions. Like bare spots, mud, sand and conditions that change with the seasons. Also maybe the green over in the shade plays differently from one on the other side of the course. Instead, Americans love rounds lasting an abominable 4 hours, and have come to tolerate rounds in the 4:30 or 5:00 range. The cart has provided some revenue to shops, but killed caddying and increases the costs to build a course. And the people paying a bunch of money to play a slow game in a vehicle want that course in "good condition." They saw Augusta on TV and want everything perfect. Why shouldn't fairways be perfect, greens at 11 and bunkers meticulously maintained. So it costs more. Heaven forbid somebody can go out, get some exercise, get 18 holes in before 11:00 and go home to their family. Better to get people paying 147.95 to ride a cart around the high end public course. Well, no.

The equipment. Golf needs playing space and real estate is expensive. A 7000 yard course should challenge a good player. A club should feel comfortable building a course that is 6800 from the back tees and 6200 for the members. Now new courses need back tees at 7800 yards or whatever. Well, that costs a lot. And it takes longer to play. More real estate, more time, more money. A lot of people think their course needs to keep up with Erin Hills or the latest 8000 yard thing, so they will try to accomodate the new ball. At least when struck by the top 1% of players. because the old guy hits a Pro v with a new driver at least 2.1 yards longer than he would hit a Spalding Dot with a Ginty.

Part of the inherent expense of golf is the cost of real estate. In a big real estate market golf will cost more to play, it has to. And so courses are built that can get a big green fee. This inevitability should not mean that we look to add expense at every turn. And it seems like that is what we are doing. To change all of this is an uphill battle.

As far as getting kids involved, IMO expense is most of it. I used to play a lot at an inner city muni. When I was a kid 18 holes was 4.75 and an annual pass was 300. You could go to the course and get out to play. Some guy let neighborhood kids take bad lessons and hit balls all summer for $5. It was all they could afford. Some probably still play though. The last time I went there the course was crowded and the green fee was higher. Still a relative bargain I guess, but not as affordable for a 12 year old. But they had a First Tee program. So the inner city kids could be exposed to golf. I guess. Looked like they got some instruction and it was something. They had something nice and structured for the kids and a little pitch and putt course. Somehow I don't see kids getting enogh from that. maybe I am wrong. Is it progress? The course is in better shape than when I was a kid. The clubhouse is new. The bathroom smells better. And perhaps it was inevitable given the growth of the city, but I think the old place was more fun.

For this reason, I think you will see a trend that it is an advantage for kids to grow up in a podunk area. Where I live now there is a good junior golf program. Kids can play all year for pretty cheap. I think a family can play unlimited golf for 500 or so a year at the local muni. It isn't a 7500 yard perfectly maintained overbuilt course, but kids can go play, and a bunch do. They tend to be pretty well behaved and there are some good players. Seeing one get to the tour is another matter. We'll see. The paper today said two local girls got golf scholarships at division 1 schools. Othter kids have gone on to play college golf. Not bad for a small area I guess. No First Tee program, but golf is available to kids and families. So is it better? Do the kids need a 7900 yard Rees Jones course? Since most kids don't get to caddy now, there is not that avenue into the game. A kid could caddy then go to a local muni and afford the green fee. Not so much anymore. So how do you get people to play and keep them playing? IMO if golf means 5 hours in a cart and $100, it wont be growing.

[JTrout]

I always enjoy reading your posts because of the thought put into them.

I wish the clock could be turned back in many ways, but doubt that it ever will.

As to the expense of golf holding back the juniors, I'm not sure.
Cable TV, computers, computer games,cell phones, and such I think takes up their time.
We held the 5A High School District tourney last week. Many of these teenagers struggled to walk 18 holes. The round took 5 1/2 hours. (Golf course played about 6400 yds.)
Moms and Dads rented carts to watch the kids.
I sold several sleeves of the new ProV1 balls at $13.50 a pop.
4 of the 40 participants broke 80.
The average score was over 90.
Most of them, however, had well over a grand worth of equipment in the bag.
Some were upset that rangefinders or GPS systems were not allowed.
2 were disqualified for incorrectly signing their scorecard.

But they'd kick your arse at Tiger Woods golf on wi. (sp?)