PS 6.5: Wickss bubble hand....Cooperate or Donate?

[luthar]

I think this type of play needs to be understood by all even if it is trivial for many advanced posters!

Here is a hand that someone in the wicks thread posted:

===============
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 Ante is t25 (3 handed)
CO (t2715)
Button (t455)
SB (t2845)
Hero (t7485)

Preflop: Hero is BB with X, X.
<font color="#666666"> CO folds </font>, <font color="red"> Button raise 435 (all-in)</font>, <font color="red"> SB calls 235 </font> , Hero?
===============


Many posters said =&gt; Pushing is better than Calling or Folding... and even with ATC!

The real question is why?
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<font color="blue"> Pushing: </font> The reason you would want this is to continue the bubble so you can take more from all the other stacks, therefore, in the best case scenario, loosing to shortstack.

<font color="green"> Calling/Folding: </font> You want to get ITM and shortstack needs to be beat two ppl.
======

There we're a few threads on this but one of the good one from two good players is

Very Standard Fold

What is everyone impression on this and what would you do? Please explain why also.

[sethypooh21]

That's a good thread, I think this is a smart reply though:[ QUOTE ]
Small stack now has 1000 chips. The medium stacks only have 2000 chips. The big stack just announced that he is going to push with absolutely any two.

The medium stacks will now be correct in opening up their calling standards a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

[RRizGod]

obviously, folding isnt an option.

Pushing is probably the best idea.

[recondite7]

Pushing is best because we get the SB dead money in the pot 95% of the time here when he folds. We either increase our chip lead or the bubble stays alive and we can exploit it without mercy. Just calling makes it more likely the bubble will burst and is not maximizing our chip EV when we could be heads up fighting for the pot. Folding is understandable in some situations but I think it is worse than pushing in this instance.

Summary:
Pushing&gt;folding&gt;calling

[Poisoned]

you cant raise can you? its only 35 chips

[sethypooh21]

You can raise, you haven't acted yet, so you can push.

[Kibby]

huh, I just learned something today. I don't push here with ATC often.

[sence25]

very delightful post OP, thank you!

[Austiger]

Pushing ATC is clearly best. Durron was saying folding&gt;calling, which I think is wrong, but whatever... he's right in that there is a bigger difference between raising and calling, than folding and calling.

[durron597]

As I said in the main thread, pushing is so much better than calling

Here are situations:

Pushing:
SB has a monster (happens almost never): he probably wins the 3 way allin and you go ITM with 2:2:1 ratio (not a bad situation)
SB doesn't have a monster: he folds, you get hu with the shortstack. If he wins, the stacks are: 7000 / 2700 / 2400 / 1400. You can then shove the next hand after UTG probably folds and you pick up more than you lost to the shortstack. You can also almost always shove the next two hands after that profitably.
If you beat the shortstack with your crap, the stacks are 8400 / 2700 / 2400 which is better than getting slapped in the face with a wet fish any way you think about it, especially compared to:

Calling and checking it down:
If the SB wins the stacks are 7000 / 2700 / 3800, which SUCKS compared to both 8400 / 2700 / 2400 and 7000 / 2700 / 2400 / 1400, since you can't bully nearly as easily in this case.

I recall an argument between ZeeJustin and Jason Strasser about this about 3 years ago. The argument went something like:

Jason: if you have a big stack and there are medium stacks, you should always fold to the shortstack to preserve the bubble
ZeeJustin: But these are raw CHIPS you're folding away. Surely bubble equity has a value, and you should only fold if your expected bubble equity is greater than the equity you are sacrificing in the chips you can win

In this hand calling and checking it down with crap probably has +EV of like 275-300 chips. Folding has zero EV (in this specific hand), but folding and shoving the next hand if the Button loses is worth probably something like +500 chips. Raising, is, of course, by far the best option, because by shutting the SB out you guarantee that the SB doesn't get it, the worst possible scenario.