Weak Tight......is there a cure?

[MickeyWins]

I call it "seeing ghosts"...
or seeing a problem that may not be real.
how does one stop playing "Weak tight"?
and what is the definition of weak tight?
tight=plays few hands preflop?
weak=plays cautiously and predictable?
help!!!!

[runout_mick]

Your definition is adequate.

Weak/tight IS the cure.

With time, study, and experience, it should develop naturally into a very sound TAG style. After you have adapted from w/t to tag, it's a (surprisingly) short bus ride from Tagville to Lagville. Once you reach this point, you should have quite an arsenal at your disposal, along with the wisdom to optimize your decisions no matter the situation you're in. Congratulations! You're a poker player!

IMO, this is the quickest route to becoming a solid all-around player. I've now successfully coached several individuals to become winning players (people who had NO poker history whatsoever) by launching them from this platform.

FWIW, I started on the lag (bad lag) side of the tracks and it was a very bumpy ride to start over at weak-tight.

Hope this helps.

[lucky_mf]

[ QUOTE ]
I call it "seeing ghosts"...
or seeing a problem that may not be real.
how does one stop playing "Weak tight"?
and what is the definition of weak tight?
tight=plays few hands preflop?
weak=plays cautiously and predictable?
help!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Stop folding so much (post flop) and start betting more. Stop imagining the other guy has the nuts all the time and quit letting him run you over.

Lucky

[HLS2k6]

[ QUOTE ]

Stop folding so much (post flop) and start betting more. Stop imagining the other guy has the nuts all the time and quit letting him run you over.

Lucky

[/ QUOTE ]

So... your advice to the poster asking how to play less weak tight is essentially "stop playing so weak and tight?" Well that makes it easy!

To the OP, are you playing limit or no-limit? Live or online? If it's NL (particularly live), I especially agree with the above reply that weak-tight is a great starting point to becoming a better player. At low-limit NL, you can afford to never show anything but the nuts, and still get paid off quite well. Winning less than you might otherwise is still way better than losing.

One thing I did to help me stop seeing monsters under the bed is pay very close attention to what my opponents are doing and showing down in hands I'm not playing. When you see some guy make a huge re-raise when the River filled the flush, then show down middle-pair, remember that when he pops you in a future hand. Or if someone got aggressive on a scare card 4 times in a row and won all 4 without showdown, use that as part of your read when he tries it against you the 5th time.

Basically, if you pay close attention to how badly some opponents are playing, you'll realize in future hands what amount of credit you should give them.

I think playing limit hold em helps with this too, where (especially at low stakes) you need to make some calls, bets and even raises when you are drawing or think you are likely behind.

Then, when your game swings the other way and you can't ever give someone credit and are making terrible calls, play a little full-ring Omaha8 where the nuts are going to win almost every hand. That will fix overplaying tendenceis in a hurry!

In short, these things will all get better with time and practice.

Good luck.

[sternroolz]

If you are playing limit.............

Drop down to $8-16 or $4-8 levels. Find the loosest game you can. One where at least six players or more are seeing the flop.

Be extremely selective preflop. And then push hard. Real hard. Especially with position. Take control of hands. Raise pf in LP after 3 limpers with any face suiteds, any Ace suiteds, any pp, any AJo or better(these are + ev plays based on pot equity). Re-evaluate after flop of course. But push really hard with any draw. Also raise these hands from the blinds, of course with extra care as to how you will play out of position post flop. C/R the field from the blinds on the flop if you flop your nut/near nut draw.

Try to get a read on at least a few of the players at the table. You'll more easily be able to continue to bet even when a scary card comes up. Most importantly, don't fold rivers. If you get to the river with a strong hand(TP, decent kicker or better) and are only facing one bet...the pots should be bloated to 15-20 bb or more at this point and you must pay off that one additional bet.

Understand that you will take some wicked swings doing this, but this is totally +ev poker. If you can understand this and open up your game doing this, then starting to push hard in situations where there are only 2-3 players post flop should come so much easier.

[lucky_mf]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Stop folding so much (post flop) and start betting more. Stop imagining the other guy has the nuts all the time and quit letting him run you over.

Lucky

[/ QUOTE ]

So... your advice to the poster asking how to play less weak tight is essentially "stop playing so weak and tight?" Well that makes it easy!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah - pretty much. Weak tight is the worst way to play - even starting out. If you play this way you're just giving money away.

Usually people that are playing weak tight don't know they're doing it. If you are aware that your doing it the simple solution is to make yourself stop. If you can't do this at your current stake (for fear of losing a buy-in) then you are clearly playing too high.

I've always found the following quote useful (Doyle Brunson from SS):

"There's not a man a live that can keep beating on me. I refuse to let someone keep taking my money...and all other truly top players are the same way. An aggressive player might do it for a while...keep leaning on me. But, at the first opportunity I get, I'm going to take a stand and put all my money in the pot."

One other thing I will add is that it is really easy to fall into this type of play if you are limping a lot and getting raised by players acting behind. The simple solution if this is the case is to stop limping by either not playing the hands you are limping with or by raising with them.

Lucky

[runout_mick]

[ QUOTE ]


One other thing I will add is that it is really easy to fall into this type of play if you are limping a lot and getting raised by players acting behind. The simple solution if this is the case is to stop limping by either not playing the hands you are limping with or by raising with them.

Lucky

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you confusing weak/tight with weak/passive?

Nothing you say about weak/tight play is accurate, and if you're playing anything other than weak/tight (or weak tag) game at the micros you're probably making a mistake.

Edit: my posts in this thread have been with nl in mind.

[lucky_mf]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


One other thing I will add is that it is really easy to fall into this type of play if you are limping a lot and getting raised by players acting behind. The simple solution if this is the case is to stop limping by either not playing the hands you are limping with or by raising with them.

Lucky

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you confusing weak/tight with weak/passive?

Nothing you say about weak/tight play is accurate, and if you're playing anything other than weak/tight (or weak tag) game at the micros you're probably making a mistake.

Edit: my posts in this thread have been with nl in mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm defining weak-tight as a player that plays tight (pf), but that plays weakly post flop (doesn't bet often enough and/or folds to aggression too easily). This is not TAG play - TAGS are tight but play very aggressively pre- and post-flop.

Using PT #s a typical weak tight player will be something like 20/6/1.0 with a high fold to flop and continuation bet frequencies whereas a good typical TAG will be 20/17/3 (all for 6-max NL ring games).

Lucky

[Nsight7]

The only cure is alcohol. It will open your game up significantly.

[lucky_mf]

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing you say about weak/tight play is accurate, and if you're playing anything other than weak/tight (or weak tag) game at the micros you're probably making a mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think my definition is in-line with established thinking. In NLHE:TAP Ed Miller defines a weak tight game as one "populated principally by players that fold too frequently, particularly to big bets on the turn and river."

Lucky