Small Pairs <66 v reraise

[xPeru]

General advice please.

First to speak with 55 or lower pair, I open 4BB. Btn min raises to 8BB, BB reraises to 12BB.

What stack sizes do you need to see to call? What reads do you need to call/shove?

Sry not to be more specific, but I'm currently folding here 100% and I think it's a leak.

[JJBuffone]

To a 4bet preflop I would fold all the pocket pairs you mentioned unless the stacks were very very very deep giving you huge implied odds.

[thac]

I would say fold no matter what the stack sizes were because you're not closing the action. Btn can raise again and then you wasted 8 extra bb. But if you decide to call, I would say both villains (and you obv) should be at least 150bb deep.

[KEW]

Fold...If you are ever to call you need to be 100% certain BTN will not 4 bet...

Also your scenario of 2 min raises is highly unlikely...These two min raise almost always indicates AA or KK..

I would NEVER call a shove w/55-22 regardless of reads...Well I guess I might if villain was moving AI every hand...But once again you still have BTN in the hand so if then I would fold..

[JJBuffone]

[ QUOTE ]
I would say fold no matter what the stack sizes were because you're not closing the action. Btn can raise again and then you wasted 8 extra bb. But if you decide to call, I would say both villains (and you obv) should be at least 150bb deep.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly, I was just saying the only situation I could condone calling there is with super deep stacks. Just hypothetical, not 100% because as you said you are not closing the action. If you think the 3bettor will stick in another raise then you should fold no matter how deep the stacks.

[Dr_Doctr]

[ QUOTE ]
but I'm currently folding here 100%.

[/ QUOTE ]

Make it 99.99% and you're probably playing correctly. This is a very bad spot for 55. You face a preflop re-raise possibility. If not, you have bad relative position postflop. I hate throwing away pocket pairs but I nearly always so here without some specific read. Don't know if this is bad play.

[Nick C]

A problem you have here is that you're not closing the action and the raising may continue after you call. As some compensation, though, you have two different players you can stack (which, among other things, increases your chances of at least stacking one of them).

Anyway, I think we can assume that Button is not folding, so you'll have ~28 BB to play for in the pot if he just calls, and (assuming he calls) it's going to cost you 8 BB to continue.

Er, I don't know. I think I would want for both players to have started with full 100 BB stacks or at least something near that since I am worried the raising will continue and I'll have to get out (or Button will min/5-bet and BB will call and suddenly I just paid $12 to continue when I would have just folded instead if I knew that 5-bet was coming -- by the way, though, I think BB has a very strong hand and I'd be surprised if he just called a 5-bet with you still in the pot).

[xPeru]

Many thanks guys, I too hate folding pps, but I so often see both raisers have garbage eg 98s, Q9o that I know that HU I'm often going to be favourite against reraiser. With dead money and some fold equity I was wondering if it was possible to take advantage. Probably not ... ty all