Foxwoods 10/20 AK

[Leader]

Typical Foxwoods 10/20 game. Very loose pf. Most players are passive postflop especially on the big streets. UTG in this hand didn't really stand out for me at the time. MP raises more then your average guy in this game pf and is more agressive post, but that's still pretty passive.

UTG raises, folded to MP to 3-bets, I'm in the HJ with AKo. I cap. UTG and MP call.

Flop K44r - 3 players 13sb

UTG checks, MP bets, I raise, UTG calls 2, MP calls.

Turn J - 3 players 8.5BB

Checked to me I bet, UTG raises, MP folds, I just sit there and stare at the flop for 30 secs and then...

Online I would even think of tossing this, but if you've played the FW 10/20 game, you know how weird passive it is. For example, if you 3-bet the flop, most people will just calldown two pair even if it's pretty obvious you just have an overpair. They also miss bets like crazy. Any scare card sends them into c/c mode for the most part.

[Mike Gallo]

Tough decision.

That Jack could have gaven him a boat, however would he play Jacks on the flop like that?

From the way you described the player he would not play any hand that has a 4, AJ, or KJ, this way pre-flop. He could have played AK the same way.

The pots offering you 4.5-1 if your behind.

If you call the turn, your almost obligated to see the river.

I call the check raise and call his river bet. If he checks to me I would check behind unless I hit a King.

If he has jacks full nice play. I would rather lose 2 bets to see the river and know, then to fold a big pot and wonder...did I make the right play.

[Man of Means]

Not familiar with fw 10/20 game but generally:

I'm not worried about JJ here. No one's good enough to fold in avoidance of a badly played 2-outer.

We didn't get to see if he had a preflop capping hand but he did coldcall pf and check/coldcall a pretty nondescript flop so his range is basically AK,KK,AA. It's tough to narrow it down without further reads on villain's tendencies (overplaying, trapping, calls down instead of trying to win outright, etc.).

Are we getting odds to call-down?
AA = 3 combos KK = 1
AK = 6 combos but hero only chops in that case.

3/10(-2) + 1/10(-2) + 6/10(5.25) > 0

Ignores 2 outs in case where villain has AA
Ignores other possible holdings where villain or hero is clearly smoked (QQ,KQ;JJ)

[Leader]

[ QUOTE ]
That Jack could have gaven him a boat, however would he play Jacks on the flop like that?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's possible. I've had guys tell me that they're "drawing" to sets with like 44 on a board with three overs. As I said, this guy didn't rally stand out so I don't know if he's any different then you're standard loose/passive guy. I don't think it's inconceivable that he'd raise KQ/KJ especially suited pf. Though it would be pretty unusual (nearly impossible really) for anyone in this game to play KQ like this on the turn.

[BigBadBabar]

leader, online (or anywhere) you would think of folding this?

it looks more like a chop than jacks full to me. either way i think it's a really easy calldown.

[Leader]

[ QUOTE ]
leader, online (or anywhere) you would think of folding this?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah that's a typo. Should be "wouldn't" for online. Live I would fold it if I thought I was beat.

[ QUOTE ]
it looks more like a chop than jacks full to me. either way i think it's a really easy calldown.

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing with AK is that honestly most guys would just calldown. Maybe some 3-bet the flop. This line is just totally weird and something you see very little in this game. He certainly has AK some amount, but I'm not sure it's enough.

[BigBadBabar]

wow, somehow i read the flop in my previous post as kk4 instead of k44. sorry about that. i guess that means aa beats us now also. wow he called 2 cold then raised the turn? I'm changing my prediction to KK or maybe AA/AK. but I think I still call down out of sanity/bigpottedness/we are ahead sometimes.

[James.]

i've never played in this game, but i've played in some that were passive enough that action like this means we are usually drawing to 2 outs.

[Diana Ross Fan]

[ QUOTE ]
Typical Foxwoods 10/20 game. Very loose pf. Most players are passive postflop especially on the big streets.

[/ QUOTE ]

That does not mean that this belongs in SSHE. I don't know what the routine is around here, but I can assure you that the 10-20 at Woods is the essential medium stakes game.

[ QUOTE ]

UTG in this hand didn't really stand out for me at the time. MP raises more then your average guy in this game pf and is more agressive post, but that's still pretty passive.

UTG raises, folded to MP to 3-bets, I'm in the HJ with AKo. I cap. UTG and MP call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you should just call. I would suggest fold here but you said the table was playing loose. With a utg raise and a 3 bet, AKo doesn't figure to be in the lead too often.

[ QUOTE ]

Online I would even think of tossing this, but if you've played the FW 10/20 game, you know how weird passive it is. For example, if you 3-bet the flop, most people will just calldown two pair even if it's pretty obvious you just have an overpair. They also miss bets like crazy. Any scare card sends them into c/c mode for the most part.

[/ QUOTE ]

True. They also do strange things like over valuing KJ. I think you have to go into c/c mode yourself. Though if he checks the river you might value bet.

[jba]

it sure looks like you have AA. I think it's a good fold.