Why we all love war

[coberst]

Why we all love war.

It is human nature to constantly seek “fuel for one’s own aggrandizement and immunity”. Otto Rank says “The death fear of the ego is lessoned by the killing of the other; one buys one’s self free from the penalty of dying, of being killed”. Is there any surprise then to discover that human kind is constantly engaged in war?

The ego can consign others to death without a ‘second thought’, when such will provide a sense of personal security. This is why war comes so naturally for sapiens. Considering the fact that we now have the WMDs to destroy all citizens in one single cataclysm, is there any doubt regarding the necessity that humans begin quickly a process of self-learning in order to comprehend our nature so as to possibly prevent this logical fate?

The price of our natural animal narcissism is that we will, when pressured, willingly sacrifice another in our place; with one very remarkable exception; the exception to this rule is, of course, the hero. Heroism is an amazing reversal of the rule of routine values. Heroism is another thing that makes war so wonderful and uplifting. War has become modern wo/man’s ritual for the emergence of heroes. We launch our self into uncritical hero worship as a catharsis of own fears.

“The logic of Scapegoating, then, is based on animal narcissism and hidden fear. If luck, as Aristotle said, is when the arrow hits the fellow next to you, then Scapegoating is pushing the fellow into its path—with special alacrity if he is a stranger to you.

The logic contained in killing others in order to protect our own life makes clear anything that may puzzle us regarding the frequency of war in human history. When I kill an enemy and thereby affirm the power of my life, then, certainly the staging of massive life-and-death struggles affirms our whole society. The outsider ponders known incidents when the mob delighted in watching the prolonged death of someone; we need not ponder if we comprehend sapiens’ drive to survive. “They are weak and die; we are strong and live.” “My God is stronger than your God”.

The Nazis provide an example of this phenomenon. The dedicated themselves to the ‘final solution’, to large scale sacrifices of human life after 1941 when it was becoming evident that they were losing. The Jews were singled out as the scapegoat for the economic and political woes of Germany in the mid twentieth century.

Many of the quotes are from “Escape from Evil”—Ernest Becker

[hmkpoker]

Interesting read, thanks for posting [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Personally, I think the desire to destroy other persons is largely a function of time preference. In a civilized society, friends are always much more advantageous to have in the long run than enemies. Friends present potential social advantages, connections, and the fulfillment of many of our important psychosocial needs, while enemies can only present potential shortcomings. The only reason why we make enemies, when they are so clearly -EV to us, is because we get that immediate rush of triumph. It is like defecting in a prisoner's dilemma; you gain an immediate reward, even though you are sure to pay a higher price for it later. This "immediate gratification" orientation is what prompts many people to come in to work and tell off their boss, or to pick fights with strangers in a bar (even though both of these things aren't going to get you anywhere socially).

Luckily, civilization seems to have found some other outlets for high time preferenced individuals to fulfill their need for aligning themselves with a random group and delight in whatever glory there is in annihilating another group of ideological identicality:

[coberst]

The question is why do we behave in the manner that we do? We have the sciences of psychology, sociology, anthropology, and psychiatry to study such things and to acquire a comprehension of such matters. We do not ‘see’ what is going on all around us because we have lived in the middle of such behavior all of our lives. We can ‘see’ only what we are prepared to ‘see’.

Some wise person said “know thyself”. We have no way of knowing our self until we begin to study what these sciences have learned and can tell us. If we wish to follow the wise admonition “know thyself” we will begin the process of learning about the findings of these sciences.

[tolbiny]

[ QUOTE ]

Why we all love war.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most people don't love war, i don't know if this is hyperbole on your part, but the VAST majority of soldiers have to be trained to kill. Armies specialize in breaking down and rebuilding men in a specific image, and still veterans frequently suffer from post traumatic stress.

[ QUOTE ]
The Nazis provide an example of this phenomenon. The dedicated themselves to the ‘final solution’, to large scale sacrifices of human life after 1941 when it was becoming evident that they were losing. The Jews were singled out as the scapegoat for the economic and political woes of Germany in the mid twentieth century.


[/ QUOTE ]

What the Nazis showed was a willingness to use violence on any scale to gain power, however the highest up rarely were directly involved with killing. Hitler didn't go touring death camps and turning on gas machines himself, while he hated Jews the war, the camps and the final solution were means to an end, his power and domination of Europe. But it is an uncommon man who acts this way, not your average. The average man has to be drafted, trained and put with veteran soldiers or he will flee at the first sign of battle.

[MidGe]

[ QUOTE ]
Most people don't love war, i don't know if this is hyperbole on your part, but the VAST majority of soldiers have to be trained to kill. Armies specialize in breaking down and rebuilding men in a specific image, and still veterans frequently suffer from post traumatic stress.

[/ QUOTE ]

I could not have said it better, regardless of Otto Rank's view! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[coberst]

If a man must be forty before he can fight in a war, there would be no war; if a man had to be forty before he could start an intellectual life, there would be no intellectual life. Both activities require curiosity, caring, and courage.

[MidGe]

[ QUOTE ]
If a man must be forty before he can fight in a war, there would be no war; if a man had to be forty before he could start an intellectual life, there would be no intellectual life. Both activities require curiosity, caring, and courage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Curiosity, caring and courage, require neither training, nor some form of permission, except for those that lack those qualities, or "need" encouragements, regardless of their ages.

[Mickey Brausch]

When World War I broke out, tens of thousands of young Britons volunteered to join up. The vast majority of those lads were wiped out in the opening battles of the war. The whole continent got caught in a nationalistic blood frenzy that swept away all pretenses of "noble human ideals".

Only deep into the reality of war, i.e. after stripping away meanings and imaginary constructs, do people hold back and re-assess their intentions.

This is what happened throughout History. If there was something outside Man that causes war, if we all hated war, we'd have found a way out from it.

Mickey Brausch

[coberst]

Wo/man causes war. If we all took the time and effort to learn what science can teach us about human nature we could perhaps do a much better job of restructuring society. The common person's comprehension about human nature is absurdly small. Like anything else the more you comprehend the better would be the result. I have only begun this effort and I am astounded at the deepth of my ignorance about myself.

[John21]

[ QUOTE ]
The price of our natural animal narcissism is that we will, when pressured, willingly sacrifice another in our place; with one very remarkable exception; the exception to this rule is, of course, the hero. Heroism is an amazing reversal of the rule of routine values. Heroism is another thing that makes war so wonderful and uplifting. War has become modern wo/man’s ritual for the emergence of heroes. We launch our self into uncritical hero worship as a catharsis of own fears.

[/ QUOTE ]

No point asking when it is
No point asking whos to go
No point asking whats the game
No point asking whos to blame
cos if youre gonna die, if youre gonna die
cos if youre gonna die, if youre gonna die

If youre gonna die, die with your boots on
If youre gonna try, just stick around
Gonna cry, just move along
If youre gonna die, youre gonna die

Task Force Papa Bear, 1st Tank Bn., would just blare that Iron Maiden song, and my attempts to out-shout from 1st Recon Bn. with Margaritaville we're in vain.

Less than 1% of the human population embraces the warrior ethos, yet the drama continues to play out and pulls the other +99% along with it. Why does that happen?

As Otto Rank said,“fuel for one’s own aggrandizement and immunity”. Not really. The only people who hate war more than the war protesters, are the soldiers who have been in war.

Or, "Heroism is another thing that makes war so wonderful and uplifting." Well, Otto probably should have interviewed a few of the "hero's" as they died in his arms. There's nothing wonderful and uplifting about it.

War is terror. Period. The fear of death isn't lessened with the killing of another person - your soul dies and you along with it. And then you get to live with it. Very empowering.

If you want to PM me about this subject, that's okay. Just don't talk about war if you haven't seen it and be a little skeptical when someone tells you what it's about if they haven't been there.