Comment thread for Debate: The atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and

[RR]

Here is the thread to comment on the iron81/andyfox debate.

[TomCollins]

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Here is the thread to comment on the iron81/andyfox debate.

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My prediction is this thread will be much like the battle themselves, with andyfox being the Enola Gay.

This should be a fun experiment.

RR, will you be modding the debate in any way?

[RR]

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RR, will you be modding the debate in any way?


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I don't plan to, other than dealing with other people posting in the thread. I think this will be a fun experiment and might give us a better idea how to have debates in the future.

[BCPVP]

This should be interesting.

[HeavilyArmed]

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This should be interesting.

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I expect the opposite. Fox is bright, well read and Iron is logically limp.

[TomCollins]

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This should be interesting.

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I expect the opposite. Fox is bright, well read and Iron is logically limp.

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This is why I expect it to be interesting.

Although it might be as short as a Mike Tyson fight. I set the over/under on 2 pages before iron admits defeat.

[Case Closed]

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This should be interesting.

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I expect the opposite. Fox is bright, well read and Iron is logically limp.

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I think Iron has the advantage that, as far as I know, the consensus is that dropping of the bombs led to the end of the war. I guess it will be interesting to see where the debate goes.

[valenzuela]

im rooting for iron.

[bobman0330]

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This should be interesting.

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I expect the opposite. Fox is bright, well read and Iron is logically limp.

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I think Iron has the advantage that, as far as I know, the consensus is that dropping of the bombs led to the end of the war. I guess it will be interesting to see where the debate goes.

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That's true, but the consensus is based on mythology of dubious factual value embodied in Stimson's post-war article defending the bombings. A lot of evidence uncovered since then undermines that account, and Andy has a strong grasp on pretty much all of it.

[LinusKS]

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The undisputed (that I'm aware of) historical fact is that immediately after the Nagasaki bomb, the military generals running the country at the time were ready to continue fighting despite the devastation on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Emperor Hirohito (sp?) stepped in at this point and appealed to the masses to end the war in a address that represented the first time the Japanese citizenry had heard the Emperor's voice. Given the Emperor's god-like position in Japanese society, this order brought about a swift conclusion to the war.

I will admit that I haven't seen a historical account of what motivated the emperor, but the obvious conclusion seems to be that since the order was issued a few days after the Nagasaki bomb that that was the major motivation.

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--It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender...--Admiral William D. Leahy.

--I voiced to him [Secretary of War Stimson] my grave misgivings, first on the vasis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because... [it was] no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of face. --Dwight Eisenhower.

--I told him that my own opinion was that the time now and the method now to deal with Russia was to keep our mouths shut and let our actions speak for words. The Russians will understand them better than anythin else. It is a case where we have got to regain the lead and perhaps do it in a pretty rough and realistic way. --Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson