Stud Hi-Low... Pot Limit... Low Draws suck

Bicycles_Biatch · #1 02-26-2007, 05:52 PM

Last night in our pot-limit mixed game... we were playing Hi-low 7 stud almost 50% of the hands.

I seem to try to follow the same rules regarding starting hands that I do for a limit stud game... but I'm guessing this is impossible.

I'm thinking that getting a bannana on 5th [which is no big deal in limit if you have A, 3,5,6 with a 3 suit] will be horrible in PL due to any player with a pair now able to force you into calling a pot size bet [or folding if you're me].

thoughts???

Beavis68 · #2 02-26-2007, 05:55 PM

PL stud is a crazy game, split pot 8b anything is really crazy.

Brad1970 · #3 02-26-2007, 06:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Last night in our pot-limit mixed game... we were playing Hi-low 7 stud almost 50% of the hands.

I seem to try to follow the same rules regarding starting hands that I do for a limit stud game... but I'm guessing this is impossible.

I'm thinking that getting a bannana on 5th [which is no big deal in limit if you have A, 3,5,6 with a 3 suit] will be horrible in PL due to any player with a pair now able to force you into calling a pot size bet [or folding if you're me].

thoughts???

[/ QUOTE ]

BB,

You're on the right track about that. Big pairs go up in value while draws go down in pot limit stud. Chasers will generally pay through the nose in that game. Hard to find a PL stud game online. I think PokerStars is the only one who spreads it or they used to.

Bicycles_Biatch · #4 02-26-2007, 07:45 PM

yeah... for example... I had A,2,4,5 (3 suit)... but a guy with a King and Ace showing bet the pot on 5th when I caught a non-flush Queen... that blew... In limit I might have re-raised with two cards to come...

I only play live BTW.

Phat Mack · #5 02-27-2007, 01:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Last night in our pot-limit mixed game... we were playing Hi-low 7 stud almost 50% of the hands.

I seem to try to follow the same rules regarding starting hands that I do for a limit stud game... but I'm guessing this is impossible.

I'm thinking that getting a bannana on 5th [which is no big deal in limit if you have A, 3,5,6 with a 3 suit] will be horrible in PL due to any player with a pair now able to force you into calling a pot size bet [or folding if you're me].

thoughts???

[/ QUOTE ]

I think a lot may depend on the texture of the game, i.e. whether you are, or can get it, heads up, but I think low hands still can dominate. I think low hands such as 876 can go up in value for reasons you illustrate: if you brick and end up with a pair of 8s, you are much better off than with a pair of 3s.

I also believe that a player pushing a big pair against a low that doesn't brick on 5th has a stack that is pretty much at the low draw's mercy. And even a low draw that does pair on 5th can still have a fairly strong hand against a naked big pair. I can envision situations where your A34563 isn't in that bad a shape, depending on stack sizes (and your ability to control the size of the pot (if your opponents have maneuvered the pot so that you must play for your stack after a 5th street brick, I know it can be vexing [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )), the number of opponents, opponent's boards, etc.

PS: I no longer have a copy, but I think Albert Morehead has a good discussion of these situations in his Complete Guide to Winning Poker. If there are any Morehead readers out there who can confirm this, or who can offer comments, I'd enjoy hearing from them. (One of the old writers has a discussion of 5th street play in big bet stud hi-lo; I think it was Morehead...)

SweetLuckyMe · #6 02-27-2007, 07:33 AM

Pot equity, as a result of dead cards, etc. doesn't change. You're either a favorite or a dog. I'll play my stack in a game like this if I've got the best of it - doesn't matter if I'm 56/44 or something with a hand setup similar to what you mentioned. Just have plenty of chips behind you and be prepared from some wild swings. You've just got to know, even if you brick, what your pot equity is, and if you have the edge vs. the big pr type hand, then re-raise them the pot and make them make a decision for their stack. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I can envision this sort of game, vs. the right opponents, to have a huge expectation.

betgo · #7 02-27-2007, 12:20 PM

A high only hand can be in difficult shape against a made low, as the low can pot, pot, pot, knowing it is freerolling.

DeathDonkey · #8 02-27-2007, 02:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Pot equity, as a result of dead cards, etc. doesn't change. You're either a favorite or a dog. I'll play my stack in a game like this if I've got the best of it - doesn't matter if I'm 56/44 or something with a hand setup similar to what you mentioned. Just have plenty of chips behind you and be prepared from some wild swings. You've just got to know, even if you brick, what your pot equity is, and if you have the edge vs. the big pr type hand, then re-raise them the pot and make them make a decision for their stack. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I can envision this sort of game, vs. the right opponents, to have a huge expectation.

[/ QUOTE ]

This guy is right. Shove with your A245Q on 5th, he'll need aces up to call at least since you can easily have buried aces or two pair. Your equity is fine even if you get called and you have fold equity. Play a shallower stack if you are folding in spots like this.

-DeathDonkey