2 river bets vs tags in blind battles

[jstill]

both players are tags and both have berated my play recently and in the past. The second villain calls me a sick animal freak pretty regularly

tag opens in sb, hero 3bets QsJs in BB
flop Qc33c
sb checks, hero bets, sb calls

turn A
sb checks, hero bets, sb calls

river 5
sb checks, hero bets...


hand 2
villain raises in sb, hero 3bets TT

flop Q44
sb checks, hero bets, sb calls

turn 5
sb checks, hero bets, sb calls

river 2
sb checks, hero bets...


Im gonna say the first one is closer for sure. thoughts?

[Veron]

They're both pretty easy value-bets for me. In blind battles players go to show-down very oftenly, and given your image, they certainly will against you [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ILOVEPOKER929]

Hand 1: If you can safely bet/fold the turn and you believe this guy will showdown light then I like the way this hand was played. River bet is close but I like the spirit of this bet.

Against many tags I prefer checking the turn and calling a river bet, but against some players 2 bets need to go in on the big streets. Knowing the difference is one of the keys to playing well.

Hand 2: Very standard every street. Ace high and lower pairs will call you.

[jt1]

Hand 2 is standard for me but I check the river in hand 1. Only a poorly played pp will call when your ahead.

I often check the flop in hand 2. I'm not sure what I think of this play.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2 is standard for me but I check the river in hand 1. Only a poorly played pp will call when your ahead.

I often check the flop in hand 2. I'm not sure what I think of this play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 1 is certainly debatable. I would say against most tags we dont want 2 bb's going in on the turn+river. However against showdown monkey tags who play relatively straight forward the heros line looks good to me.

I think checking the flop in hand 2 is a very bad play. You have a strong hand here, take your opponent to valuetown every street.

[jt1]

Why do you think he's a showdown monkey TAG and what does that term mean? That he'll showdown with king high and c/c down with a pp? I can see that some TAG's on occassion c/c down with a pp, though I got to believe that many of these same TAG's can fold to a bet on this particular board.

I think I often check the flop in hand one because it induces bets from bad players and saves me one if I'm behind. It also gives hands like J9 a chance to make 2nd pair. Most TAG's, however, will see it as slowplaying a monster.

[Apanage]

First hand I check behind
Second hand I bet river

But these rivers is highly read dependable.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you think he's a showdown monkey TAG and what does that term mean? That he'll showdown with king high and c/c down with a pp? I can see that some TAG's on occassion c/c down with a pp, though I got to believe that many of these same TAG's can fold to a bet on this particular board.

I think I often check the flop in hand one because it induces bets from bad players and saves me one if I'm behind. It also gives hands like J9 a chance to make 2nd pair. Most TAG's, however, will see it as slowplaying a monster.

[/ QUOTE ]

It appears that the hero's image may have induced the tag to becoming a showdown monkey. I dont know for sure though, I wasnt there. Based on the way the tag has played the hand it looks like he has Ax,Qx or a pocket pair. Given his passive line I think hes more likely to have a pocket pair than Ax but like I said before, even If I felt I was a favorite to have the best hand on the river I still wouldnt bet against most tags since I wont be a favorite to have the best hand if called. However If someone is very showdown bound and very unlikely to check/raise bluff the river, I can find a value bet here.

I will mention again though just to be clear. Against most tags, I would check the turn and call the river with QJ. Thats pretty much my standard play in this spot.

In hand 2, I think there is still too many lesser hands that will call you down to check the flop.