keeping the fish happy

[dfbuzzbeater]

I'll try to make this brief...

I run a home game. There's 5 or 6 regular players, and about 15 possible players, so I can usually keep a game going with between 7-9 players on any Friday night. Me and 3 of the regulars have been playing together since my sophomore year (i'm a senior now), so needless to say, we know each other's play...

Pretty much all of the other players that come, are fish. The game is small: $.1/.25, and everyone buys in for $20. By the end of the night, however, usually the game gets pretty big. Two weeks ago we ended the night with about $600 on the table between the six of us playing at the end of the night (which was the six regulars). The game is usually a lot of fun though, and I always end up getting "drunk" and "playing crazy and wrecklessly". I'm sure you know why those are in quotes.

My question is this: from those 8-10 other guys besides the regulars, most of them come to the game for two hours, drop anywhere from $20-$60, and then leave. It's like a reverse hit and run, and I feel like because a few of them have done this three or four times, that soon they're going to get fed up. I'm not going to play soft, but I would like them to just book ONE win so that they can always say, "man, I'm just running bad. I mean, look at that one time..." but as it is now they come, drop their money, and leave. Other than praying to the poker gods to have the fish cold deck other guys 8 times, is there anything I can do in running the game to keep the fish happy and coming back?

Thanks.

[pismeyer]

Spot one of the fish $10 to play.

P

[tsearcher]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not going to play soft,

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not? It's the easiest way to keep them coming back.

[Small Fry]

I'll second the play soft idea. Taking all their money by putting them all in on the river, because you know they'll call might be a good idea in the short run, but could leave them broke, feeling bad and not returning. On the other hand a smaller bet or even a check behind still gets you a win, promotes a friendlier atmosphere and leaves them with some money to keep playing (You can get it later, right.)

Another idea might be offering to run a hand 2 or 3 times if the fish routinely call with the worst of it. IT gives them a better chance to keep some of their money. Routinely doing this generally increases the "gambling" atmosphere.

3rd option is to provide some free food and drink. Gives the losers a chance to feel like they got a little something in return for losing their hard earned cash to you. I would do this before just spotting them cash as some may take offense.

last idea - put a cap on the betting / pot size. Not a fan of this personally but it can limit how much is lost on one hand allowing them to last longer.

My other feelings on this is that some guys don't mind losing ($$ amounts lost can impact greatly) as long as their getting out and having a good time. Don't know how much $20-$60 is to your crowd but generally it's not a lot - a movie, few drinks at a bar, dinner. So if they get out for a couple of hours, have a couple of drinks and a few slices of pizza, on the house, they might not really mind dropping some cash. The really nice ones will not only lose but also offer to pay for some of the food.

[Reckless1der]

I'm going to take a contrary opinion here. I have developed a theory that the opposite of what you think is actually true. When the fish come into the game it is your job to bust them. The harder you hit them the more likely they are to return. Exacting revenge is a powerful motivator among humans.

Here are some examples: when Teddy KGB busted Mike in Rounders did he go away and never come back, well yes he tried for awhile, but then he came to his senses and his whole goal in life to go back in and hit Teddy so hard he got his money back and then some. Think about the last time you got busted, perhaps in a room or game that was over your head. Did you put your tail between your legs and run away, or did the sting just make you more determined to get back in the ring. I may be different than you, but I know how I answer that question.

Will you lose some fish? yes possibly, but that's OK there are more out there. I host 3, two-table poker nights a month, I presently have an e-mail distribution list of over 40 and fill up 18 seats almost every game. I have been running the game for almost 3 years now, and we have lost some weak players, but I'll tell you what I have one or two fish calling me every week to get in the game.

I'll tell you one more thing. Fish may be +EV, but I enjoy the games with the hitters better. There is nothing worse than having to tell someone what there options are for the 5th time. Also, the fish will have a limit as to how much they bring, but players will bring a roll and reload, and reload, and reload. I have had my biggest wins against good players, not fish.

Bottom line- soft playing is lame, stick them hard.

[dfbuzzbeater]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to take a contrary opinion here. I have developed a theory that the opposite of what you think is actually true. When the fish come into the game it is your job to bust them. The harder you hit them the more likely they are to return. Exacting revenge is a powerful motivator among humans.

Here are some examples: when Teddy KGB busted Mike in Rounders did he go away and never come back, well yes he tried for awhile, but then he came to his senses and his whole goal in life to go back in and hit Teddy so hard he got his money back and then some. Think about the last time you got busted, perhaps in a room or game that was over your head. Did you put your tail between your legs and run away, or did the sting just make you more determined to get back in the ring. I may be different than you, but I know how I answer that question.

Will you lose some fish? yes possibly, but that's OK there are more out there. I host 3, two-table poker nights a month, I presently have an e-mail distribution list of over 40 and fill up 18 seats almost every game. I have been running the game for almost 3 years now, and we have lost some weak players, but I'll tell you what I have one or two fish calling me every week to get in the game.

I'll tell you one more thing. Fish may be +EV, but I enjoy the games with the hitters better. There is nothing worse than having to tell someone what there options are for the 5th time. Also, the fish will have a limit as to how much they bring, but players will bring a roll and reload, and reload, and reload. I have had my biggest wins against good players, not fish.

Bottom line- soft playing is lame, stick them hard.

[/ QUOTE ]

umm...yeah...i'm gonna have to sort of, disagree with you there.

i think the soft-playing guys have put things in perspective. i was picturing every hand to be "check-check. check-bet-call. check-bet-call. i have top pair; i have second pair. oh, you win."

the descriptions of how to softplay are helpful and put things into perspective. Thanks!

[wiper]

we have the same sort've problem at our regular game...there are 3 or 4 regulars that have become a lot less regular, especially since we upped the stakes..

i don't know what to tell you...i would kill to have these 3 or 4 guys at my table, but then, i'm not going to softplay them to get it, either..

[Reckless1der]

Well have it your way. I guess it's fine if you guys want to keep thinking the way you are, just my experience leads me to believe you are dead wrong about this.

Sure I have lost 2 or 3 fish that left and never came back, but I have twice as many weak players that come back every week. Cards being what they are, they actually manage to win on their own every now and then without anyone soft playing them.

I would suggest you try to understand the psychology of why people play to begin with. I think after you do that you will see why softplaying them is silly.

Further I have new fish every week trying to get in. Personally, I don't see any need to keep the fish happy, but maybe I'm just lucky that way.

[tsearcher]

[ QUOTE ]

I would suggest you try to understand the psychology of why people play to begin with.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a very good point. But different people play for different reasons. Some guys will come back for revenge, usually the hyper-aggressive players. I would never soft play them.

OP seemed to be talking about players that were getting discouraged and leaving early, maybe to never return. There is no reason to humiliate them. Some guys are so bad they never win. They know the rules, they play in turn. They're just bad. Throwing them a bone once in a while is +ev for every one else.

You have a big pool of players to choose from. Not all of us do. So we do what we have to, to keep the game going.

[kbinder]

[ QUOTE ]
when Teddy KGB busted Mike in Rounders did he go away and never come back, well yes he tried for awhile, but then he came to his senses and his whole goal in life to go back in and hit Teddy so hard he got his money back and then some.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I agree (somewhat) with the main point of your post, this is a bad analogy. Mike was not a fish, and he didn't make it his goal to get money back from a specific player.