Basic two dimes queston top or bottom set vs a made st8

[omaha]

Basic question which i do not understand, and need some help please.

Had a hand tonight, i ran through two dimes.

Flop A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]


Hand one, 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hand two, top set, A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
5d 4d 268000 21.94 947491 77.55 6268 0.51 0.222
Ad Ah 947491 77.55 268000 21.94 6268 0.51 0.778

Okay, i agree, and can do the basic maths to get something like this, ie that top set crushes a made st8, by pairing the board on the turn or river.


Lets run it with middle set versus the made straight

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
5d 4d 659689 54.00 520189 42.58 41881 3.43 0.557
3d 3h 520189 42.58 659689 54.00 41881 3.43 0.443


And bottom set versus a made st8

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
5d 4d 672320 55.03 502666 41.14 46773 3.83 0.569
2d 2h 502666 41.14 672320 55.03 46773 3.83 0.431

Now, why does top set do better than middle set and is again better than bottom set against the same made st8??????? Any pairing of the board makes the set win, and any nonpairing of the board makes the st8 win (barring the very rare turn and river being a 4 and a 5)

Thus, according to my thoughts (which are no doubt incorrect, but i dont know why) is that there should be exactly the same number of outs for ANY set to beat a made st8, regardless of if it is top set, middle set, or bottom set.

Please note in all circumstances, i am not talking about a set over set confrontation. I am discussing only one set being up against a made st8

[kinheim]

i think you messed something up in the program this is not close to right..

[registrar]

Your hand is a 65/35 favourite over top set.

[omaha]

Just ran it again, same results.

Bottom and middle set (ie twos and threes) are very similar, having 55 and 57% of equity

Top set is still 78% of equity, but i cant think of WHY?!?!?!?!?!

[nath]

Did you make sure you calculated the equity AFTER the flop?

[nath]

I mean, this is very wrong. Each of these sets should be about a 65-35 dog to a straight.

[nath]

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=2389692
pokenum -h 4d 5d - ah ad -- ac 2c 3s
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 3s Ac 2c
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
5d 4d 640 64.65 341 34.44 9 0.91 0.651
Ad Ah 341 34.44 640 64.65 9 0.91 0.349

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=2389693
pokenum -h 4d 5d - 3d 3h -- ac 2c 3s
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 3s Ac 2c
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
5d 4d 640 64.65 341 34.44 9 0.91 0.651
3d 3h 341 34.44 640 64.65 9 0.91 0.349

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=2389694
pokenum -h 4d 5d - 2d 2h -- ac 2c 3s
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 3s Ac 2c
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
5d 4d 640 64.65 341 34.44 9 0.91 0.651
2d 2h 341 34.44 640 64.65 9 0.91 0.349

[omaha]

Thanks Nath, I just realised that I stuffed it up.

Basically, retard me put the board cards in the dead cards box.

[censored] i gotta get some sleep and play less poker!

PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS AT all, I do not want it bumped up at all!

SOrry for the inconvenience

[Cleverbeans]

[ QUOTE ]
Just ran it again, same results.

Bottom and middle set (ie twos and threes) are very similar, having 55 and 57% of equity

Top set is still 78% of equity, but i cant think of WHY?!?!?!?!?!

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you're doing something wrong. Both pokerstove and twodimes give me a 65/45 result for all the sets with a less then 1% change between top and bottom sets.