big pot, little ace

[n.s.]

I wasn't gonna post this because it seems more BBV than mid-stakes, but it keeps replaying in my mind, so here we go...

9 handed 8-16 game. The table for the most part is typical - too loose pre-flop, a little too aggro on the flop, pretty predictable on the big streets.

Specific reads:

MP is kinda loose/erratic. He's been raising a lot PF and generally donking it up. His limp-reraise in this hand probably indicates anything but AA or KK - it's much more likely to be him screwing around with garbage, or building a pot with suited connectors.

CO is mostly unknown, but doesn't seem totally retarded. A few hands ago he bluffed the river with nothing in a big pot with one player all in (but with a few bets in the side pot).

Button is probably the best player at the table - he's a tight, aggressive player who doesn't get rattled very easy. He'll push small edges and he can make good laydowns in hands where even solid players have trouble letting go. He knows me fairly well and probably thinks I'm solid, but not great.

PF Hero is HJ with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
3 players limp, hero limps, CO limps, <font color="red">button raises</font>, SB folds, BB calls, 2 more calls, <font color="red">MP 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, HJ calls, <font color="red">button caps</font>, everyone calls.

Flop A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img](8 players, 32.5 SB)
5 players check, <font color="red">Hero bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="red">Button raises</font>, 2 limpers cold-call, Hero calls, HJ calls.

Turn 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players, 21 BB)
2 players check, <font color="red">Hero bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="red">Button raises</font>, 2 folds, Hero calls, CO calls.

River 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img](3 players, 27 BB)
<font color="red">Hero bets</font>, <font color="red">CO raises</font>, Button folds, <font color="red">Hero 3-bets</font>, CO calls.

[jambony]

Big mistake not to 3bet flop, four callers, only 1 other aggressor, you have lots of equity.

The rest of the hand is fine.

[n.s.]

[ QUOTE ]
Big mistake not to 3bet flop, four callers, only 1 other aggressor, you have lots of equity.

The rest of the hand is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm mostly posting because of the PF call (it feels wierd to call 2 more with a high likelyhood of a cap, but is it standard with this many players in?), and because of the flop/turn combo.

My thinking on the flop was that in a pot this big, pretty much any hand with any glimmer of hope has the right odds to call, so 3-betting does very little to protect my fragile equity. I called the flop planning to bet out any turn, hoping that button would raise again and might actually get some of the limpers to fold (if I 3-bet and lead the turn, any PP has plenty of odds to call...).

[jambony]

It's still a big mistake not to 3bet flop. You very likely have the best hand on the flop. If you 3bet you are going to get a lot more money in when you are very likely to have the best hand. The minimal edge you gain by having those players fold to the turn bet when button raises is far outweighed by the 2.5 and possibly 5 big bets (if button 4bets) you get in on the flop when you 3bet.

Preflop is 50/50, that many callers and it's not wrong to call, although personally I fold.

[sublime]

3 bet the flop for reasons already stated. the preflop call is BEYOND CORRECT.

in the games i play in i generally dont limp up front with suited aces, but will almost always overlimp with them. with three limpers and good position, i think folding is a clear mistake.