Two ethics questions.

[jkamowitz]

Live 20/40 down at Foxwoods.

Two situations I'd like opinions on:

1) There is an early raise and a cold call. I call out of the big blind. The flop is dealt and I check call the preflop raiser. However, before the turn is dealt, the preflop raiser mucks his hand thinking no one called the flop bet. The table then starts bitching that I should give him half the pot back.

2) There is a monster pot and a small side pot. I show down two kings for the side pot, the other player shows the person next to him two pair (which is losing to the all in player's set) and throws his hand away unaware of the side pot. The players start bitching that I should owe him at least half of the side pot.

What's your play in both these spots?

[Banks2334]

In both situations you owe them nothing. Maybe next time they will learn to pay attention. Do you think they would give you half the pot for being an idiot? Probably not.

[steamboatin]

Keep the money. It is a player's responsibility to protect their hand. The only exception is if they are complete fish and you want to keep them in the game.

Neither of these are ethical questions because you didn't do anything. They mucked, you didn't scam them or angleshoot them in any way.

[psandman]

1) Did you do something that lead him to believe that you were no longer in the hand? Were you hiding your cards? did you pretend to fold? If not I don't see why you give up half the pot.

2) The player mucked his hand rather than tabling it. He didn't show it to you. You have no way of knowing whether he really had two pair or not, unless you did something like miscalling your hand I don't see why you would give up half the sidepot.

[afish]

Obviously you owe nothing in either hand. On the first hand, I'd keep the pot, since this could just be an angle and you could have the best hand.

The second hand depends on table atmosphere. Since someone saw the hand, you know it is not an angle. If the side pot was small and the mucker seems like a guy who could lose a lot if he stays around, I might split it with him.

[Masquerade]

(1) Ship it!
(2) Well "Cards speak" and all ... I wouldn't want to be a nit about it so I'd split the sidepot as a gesture.

[Mr_Donktastic]

Hand 2 is closer but since you can't be sure he actually had 2 pr I would keep the pot. If for instance he flashed you his cards instead of his neighbor it would be unethical to keep the pot (or even half imo).

[Your Mom]

ship it on both

[jjshabado]

[ QUOTE ]
ship it on both

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, its 20/40. If its 2/4 I might show more leniency.

[DrewOnTilt]

Before I make my blanket reply, keep in mind that it is better to maintain a friendly, jovial, loose game than to do anything that might create an aura of hostility. Happy, loose games are generally more profitable IMHO, so use your judgement in these situations.

[ QUOTE ]
Live 20/40 down at Foxwoods.

Two situations I'd like opinions on:

1) There is an early raise and a cold call. I call out of the big blind. The flop is dealt and I check call the preflop raiser. However, before the turn is dealt, the preflop raiser mucks his hand thinking no one called the flop bet. The table then starts bitching that I should give him half the pot back.


[/ QUOTE ]

Technically you don't owe him a thing. I might give him at least something, like post his big blind the next time around.

[ QUOTE ]

2) There is a monster pot and a small side pot. I show down two kings for the side pot, the other player shows the person next to him two pair (which is losing to the all in player's set) and throws his hand away unaware of the side pot. The players start bitching that I should owe him at least half of the side pot.


[/ QUOTE ]

If either I have seen the two pair hand or it was correctly tabled and the dealer can vouch for it, then I give him 100% of the side pot. Otherwise tough balls. Cardroom rules procedures are not that hard to understand; in fact most live poker rules are plain common sense.