A hand that made me realize I still know nothing about PLO

[Boredom]

I just want to thank everybody first of all for their responses to the hand I posted yesterday. Struggling to grasp this game (and poker in general) has often been frustrating but still brings a sense of accomplishment, and I really appreciate your help which is free and even -ev, god bless you all.

On this hand, I know, fold pf. I always do but was slightly tilting this time, please disregard.

My first thought after this hand was, can I fold these rivers? Seems to me that if I am hammering a 60-40 edge (granted a smaller edge than would usually be the case, because of the caliber of players at this level, and this particular monster draw of villain's) but with 1/4 of my stack still behind on the river for implied odds, it could make a big difference in profitability if I am occasionally able to get away when it is just obvious I'm beat, even though "the price is too good". I'm used to NLHE where you do see worse hands valueshoving in this situation and people are often more likely to slowplay against aggression, and you basically just have to call (certainly this is a call in NLHE imho). TBH I snapcalled here without thinking but I'm questioning that now. For all I know this is a standard PLO fold, just not sure.

I have other questions too, but for now, do people make folds getting this price in this kind of situation, and is this exploitable somehow (maybe like the game theory section of TOP; say there are two flush draws, only one of which villain has, and villain valuebets one and bluffs the other? Obv that IS a strategy to exploit huge folds, but I'm also asking if it is *realistically* likely to be exploited if I, for example, fold next time in this exact same spot.)


Hand #37040420-86809 at Wapakoneta (Pot Limit Omaha)
Started at 29/Jan/07 07:04:13

capone62 is at seat 0 with $25.10.
Redbone77 is at seat 1 with $29.45.
Jake_Camp is at seat 2 with $24.90.
violent green is at seat 3 with $26.60.
krazykingz12 is at seat 4 with $27.95.
bogeyplayer is at seat 5 with $41.90.
The button is at seat 2.

violent green posts the small blind of $.10.
krazykingz12 posts the big blind of $.25.

capone62: -- -- -- --
Redbone77: -- -- -- --
Jake_Camp: Qs 8c 8h 6d
violent green: -- -- -- --
krazykingz12: -- -- -- --
bogeyplayer: -- -- -- --

Pre-flop:

bogeyplayer folds. capone62 folds. Redbone77 calls.
Jake_Camp calls. violent green calls.
krazykingz12 checks.

Flop (board: 4s Jc 8s):

violent green checks. krazykingz12 bets $1.
Redbone77 calls. Jake_Camp raises to $5. violent
green folds. krazykingz12 folds. Redbone77 calls.


Turn (board: 4s Jc 8s Ac):

Redbone77 checks. Jake_Camp bets $12. Redbone77
calls.

River (board: 4s Jc 8s Ac Qd):

Redbone77 goes all-in for $12.20. Jake_Camp goes
all-in for $7.65. Redbone77 is returned $4.55
(uncalled).



Showdown:

Redbone77 shows 7c 9h Kc Td.
Redbone77 has Kc Td Jc Ac Qd: straight, ace high.
Jake_Camp shows Qs 8c 8h 6d.
Jake_Camp has 8c 8h 8s Ac Qd: three eights.


Hand #37040420-86809 Summary:

$2.55 is raked from a pot of $51.30.
Redbone77 wins $48.75 with straight, ace high

[RoundTower]

you pretty much never get bluffed here, and most of your opponents won't ever think to exploit your folding tendencies in spots like this. But you have to call just in case.

[iggymcfly]

With $7 remaining, you should never fold here. This isn't even a likely card for a draw. This could easily be a hand that was trying to make a flush and rivered two pair and bet "just in case they were ahead". And while a bluff's unlikely in this spot, I've seen that before too. Sometimes, you just have to call because of pot odds even though you're probably behind.

[Slonye6]

[ QUOTE ]
With $7 remaining, you should never fold here. This isn't even a likely card for a draw. This could easily be a hand that was trying to make a flush and rivered two pair and bet "just in case they were ahead". And while a bluff's unlikely in this spot, I've seen that before too. Sometimes, you just have to call because of pot odds even though you're probably behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is this not an obvious draw completing hand? I think this is a very likely card to complete a draw. Not only does it complete broadways, it completes any T9xx wrap from the flop, which will commonly be played at these levels even with a flush draw on the flop. With more than 30 BB left, I definitely find a fold here against 2 or more opponents. I think it's up for debate hu, and against stronger players who can bluff a busted flush draw here it's a call. However, these aren't the opponents you are playing at this level, and I very rarely see bluffing of this sort at the quarter tables.

Calling/folding are close enough that it probably doesn't matter.

[iggymcfly]

I guess it's a better straight card then I thought it was. It's tough to see sometimes when the hands are unconverted. Actually, with him betting out and then calling on the flop, I'd say the wrap is probably his most likely hand on the flop too, but I still think we have to call with this few chips left. If we had villian covered, it would probably be a fold against a predictable player though.