Getting value vs not overplaying

[AshleyC]

I'm trying to find that fine line between getting value from big pairs whilst not overplaying them. Previously I have been betting flop / turn in these spots pretty automatically, but alot of responses to my hand histories have said to often check the turn to keep the pot small with one pair. Is this turn a check?

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter


Stack sizes:
UTG: $51.10
Hero: $104.50
CO: $43.85
Button: $49.75
SB: $28.95
BB: $50.25


Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, Hero raises to $2, CO folds, Button calls, 2 folds.


Flop: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($4.75, 2 players)
Hero bets $3, Button calls.


Turn: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($10.75, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $5, Hero calls.


River: A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($20.75, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.


Results:
Final pot: $20.75

[phil iveyND]

I would bet turn villain prolly has mid pckt pair!

Ballin!

[amoeba]

this turn is a bet for me.

flop is paired 3s, so its unlikely he outflopped you.

flop is 2 hearted so I probably bet again to charge heart draw.

if flop was rainbow, I might check turn as the 3s give me counterfeit protection against any 9 aside from K9 or A9 making 2 pair on the river and might give me more value if I don't think this villain will call a turn bet with a 9.

[cd77]

i continue betting turn here. it is very likely that villain is chasing hearts here, i wouldnt want to risk giving a free card to his draw. also, why are we trying to control pot size on this board? depending on reads, its very unlikely that villain chose to call your raise pf with a 3 in his hand

[AshleyC]

Is this hand a million miles away?

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post8869649

The advise was unaminously check turn. In these spots I would tend to bet turn 90% + of the time, but am trying to choose better which spots to bet and which spots to check.

PS - in this hand I was a moron and didnt realise that my QQ was still ahead of 97, which I also figured to be in villans range. For the sake of argument what if the flop wasn;t paired but was instead 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Would that be a turn bet or check?

[phil iveyND]

if flop was 953 i would still be betting turn!

[Waingro]

You are absolutely correct, sometimes it is correct to check the turn for pot-control. This is probably not the time because:
1. There are very, very few monsters under the bed you should worry about on this board. It is basically 99 and that´s it.
2. If villain had a pocket pair he is not going to be intimidated by that board so he will probably call twice. He will probably put you on "AK".
3. There is a draw out! Even seemingly competent players love to chase without odds. I think you should encourage that.
4. Your hand is somewhat vulnerable. A, K or a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] might lose you the pot or scare you into folding a winner if villain is aggressive.

So I think you should bet more on the flop, bet at least 2/3 pot on the turn. If you are feeling particulary uneasy you can always check river, with the intention of calling a reasonable bet on a blank. But a turn bet is a very good idea on this board.

Edit: LOL, saw your link. That is the difference you get for including villains cr in the other thread. The only lesson to be learned is to edit out all subsequent action.

[AshleyC]

Thanks Jim, do you think the advise in the other thread was just b/c I included the turn c/r? Like I said in these spots I would pretty much bet the turn 100% but the whole-hearted aggreement in that last post really quite suprised me. I'll pay particular attention to board texture etc and pay particular attention to my turn bets in the next few sessions.

[Waingro]

[ QUOTE ]

Thanks Jim, do you think the advise in the other thread was just b/c I included the turn c/r? Like I said in these spots I would pretty much bet the turn 100% but the whole-hearted aggreement in that last post really quite suprised me. I'll pay particular attention to board texture etc and pay particular attention to my turn bets in the next few sessions.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well the board is quite different in this hand, 933 two hearts is as good a board you are ever gong to get to extract value with QQ, so there is that. But seeing villain checking behind on the river in this hand and cr turn in the other is pretty damaging for the responses you are going to get.

[AshleyC]

He had JJ in this hand and I definitely missed tonnes of value.