Discussion on a line

[kitaristi0]

I know in different situations and against different opponents this line will mean different things, but I'd like to get whatever general thoughts you guys have on this line:

You raise preflop and get called by one of the blinds. Assume he is a weakish player. On the flop he checks, you cbet and he calls. Now on the turn the villain leads out for a bet of half the pot or less.

When he does this, does he have a monster, TPGK, TPNK, weak 2nd or 3rd pair hand/float, or draw?

Two example hands:

You raise XX, and get called by the BB. The flop is J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Check, Cbet, call. The turn is the 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. He leads for 1/2Pot.

You raise XX and get called by the SB. The flop is Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Check, Cbet, call. The turn is 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. He leads for 1/2Pot.

[AceofSpades]

1) smaller pair, < TPTK. but opponent dependent won't lay that down.

2) same range as above but including flush draw.

[poboys]

In my experience, when a weak player leads the turn for 1/2 pot (or more) it usually means a strong hand. Oftentimes, the turn gave them two pair.

Somtimes if they lead with 1/2 pot they just picked up a draw, but usually they lead for less than 1/2 the pot in that case (they are trying to set the price). Or, they lead for 1 BB, which is pure comedy.

I rarely see weak players do c/C/B with x[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] x[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (you second example).

What stakes are you seeing this play?

[AceofSpades]

basically < half pot I see as trying to "set the price"

[einherjar]

[ QUOTE ]
basically < half pot I see as trying to "set the price"

[/ QUOTE ]

agree, if there are draws and I have a made hand I raise for value. if there aren't draws and i have a made hand it's a mix between raising/calling but mostly calling. if there are draws and I have nothing I'll just dump it. If there are no draws and I have nothing I'll mix between dumping/popping.

[the machine]

i have done it rarely but with a good read with absolutely nothing. ie villain raises pf assume 20/15 with cbet of 90. i call out os SB with 56c flop comes 10 9 2 rainbow i check he bets i call with the plan to bet any low card turn. believe it or not this line has been very profitable against a vilain like this.

disclaimer: im not endorsing this play or saying it should be used often but in the right circumstance it works.

also i do like the OOP float because a weak tight villain, or hero like myself, will give up on a scary turn card.

flop 2 hearts ace high. i check call smallish bets planning to bet him out of a heart turn. when the heart hits i lead out and can usually take it down

disclaimer: see above

[allaboutmyfetti]

In one of the videos posted a whiile back (iStrong?), whoever made the video commented that this line usually means weakness and raised the turn donk with nothing ...

[allaboutmyfetti]

[ QUOTE ]
i have done it rarely but with a good read with absolutely nothing. ie villain raises pf assume 20/15 with cbet of 90. i call out os SB with 56c flop comes 10 9 2 rainbow i check he bets i call with the plan to bet any low card turn. believe it or not this line has been very profitable against a vilain like this.

disclaimer: im not endorsing this play or saying it should be used often but in the right circumstance it works.

also i do like the OOP float because a weak tight villain, or hero like myself, will give up on a scary turn card.

flop 2 hearts ace high. i check call smallish bets planning to bet him out of a heart turn. when the heart hits i lead out and can usually take it down

disclaimer: see above

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you ever do this with a hand that can call a turn raise?

[the machine]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i have done it rarely but with a good read with absolutely nothing. ie villain raises pf assume 20/15 with cbet of 90. i call out os SB with 56c flop comes 10 9 2 rainbow i check he bets i call with the plan to bet any low card turn. believe it or not this line has been very profitable against a vilain like this.

disclaimer: im not endorsing this play or saying it should be used often but in the right circumstance it works.

also i do like the OOP float because a weak tight villain, or hero like myself, will give up on a scary turn card.

flop 2 hearts ace high. i check call smallish bets planning to bet him out of a heart turn. when the heart hits i lead out and can usually take it down

disclaimer: see above

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you ever do this with a hand that can call a turn raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes def, a small flopped set is a perfect hand to do it with, and to off set teh few times i do try and pull it off with air.

[allaboutmyfetti]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i have done it rarely but with a good read with absolutely nothing. ie villain raises pf assume 20/15 with cbet of 90. i call out os SB with 56c flop comes 10 9 2 rainbow i check he bets i call with the plan to bet any low card turn. believe it or not this line has been very profitable against a vilain like this.

disclaimer: im not endorsing this play or saying it should be used often but in the right circumstance it works.

also i do like the OOP float because a weak tight villain, or hero like myself, will give up on a scary turn card.

flop 2 hearts ace high. i check call smallish bets planning to bet him out of a heart turn. when the heart hits i lead out and can usually take it down

disclaimer: see above

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you ever do this with a hand that can call a turn raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes def, a small flopped set is a perfect hand to do it with, and to off set teh few times i do try and pull it off with air.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yoiks, I usually b3b or c/r with a flopped set ... I guess that's too transparent. IMO against most opponents, c/c, lead keeps the pot too small.