12-24, standard catch-n-fold?

[n.s.]

12-24, 8 handed at the moment.

Reads:

BB is an older guy, and seems to play a straightforward tight-passive game. He's not a total rock, though, as he'll get into some hands and be aggressive when warranted (3-betting an overpair on the flop, that sort of thing) - but I've never seen him push a draw hard or otherwise get out of line.

UTG+2 is too loose, but generally a decent player since he's sober right now.

MP is an aggro fish. He likes to do things like 3-bet the turn against multiple opponents with a weak draw, and cold-call a PFR and bet/call-down with bottom pair no kicker.

I have a tight image, and especially right now as I haven't been playing many pots, but I've been winning the ones that I do.

PF Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero limps, UTG+2 limps, MP limps, BB checks - everyone else folds.

Flop 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players, 4.5 SB)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets</font>, UTG+2 folds, MP calls, <font color="red">BB raises</font>, Hero calls, MP calls.

Turn J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players, 5 BB)
<font color="red"> BB bets</font>, Hero folds...

I thought PF was a little iffy, but I wasn't too worried about getting isolated, because people like to cold-call in the game. So even if I had to pay 2 bets I figured I'd be in good shape in a big multi-way pot, othewise I thought my limp my encourage more limping behind me.

Rest of the hand standard?

[jba]

his most likely hand is two pair, no? don't see how you can fold here.

also, the flop bet is really bad.

[blindside]

JTs is a fun hand to raise sometimes, given the right image... it'll usually turn into a big pot that you'll either win or lose sometimes... limping isn't horrible in a loose-passive game...

betting the flop is not so good... folding the turn is even worse.... you could have as many as 10 outs a lot of the time and MP won't have a flush draw every time and even if he does you still have 7 outs against 2 pair...

not to mention the fact you could have the best hand....

[n.s.]

[ QUOTE ]
his most likely hand is two pair, no? don't see how you can fold here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really doubt this guy has two pair here - he's smart enough to know how vurnerable 2-pair is on a board like this, straightforward enough to just bet it out, and passive enough that he might not even check-raise it after a bet and a call (if he was trying to isolate MP).

[andyfox]

Did you consider 3-betting the flop? It could both get you a free card and knock out MP, putting you in position for the rest of the hand, especially with your tight image.

I sure couldn't have folded on the turn. BB might well have waited for the turn with the nuts or a set, and since he got a free play in the blind, he might have just about anything.

Pre-flop seems fine in a loose-passive game.

[vmacosta]

huh? I'd raise and call a 3rd bet. But I sometimes spew in spots like this, so if better players say call, I'd listen to them. I would absolutely never ever ever fold.

[n.s.]

hmm... maybe I made a bad fold, or maybe I didn't really describe this guy very well. When I said he's "not a total rock", I meant that he is still pretty close to one. He's the kind of guy that'll bet his top pair on the flop, and then always check the turn if an overcard comes, regardless of the rest of the board or who else is in the pot with him.

His flop play really made me think he had at least a set, and I figured I would rarely have more than 4 outs on the turn (and often 3 if he had a made straight, or MP had a flush draw).

Maybe this was one of those "had to be there" live reads that make for lousy posts (sorry guys). For those that play live a lot - are there players that you know that you would fold this turn against?

[Mr. T]

[ QUOTE ]
For those that play live a lot - are there players that you know that you would fold this turn against?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, because they have two pair more often than you think.

There are players though that I could fold to on the river unimproved if the continue to bet, which is what I think you should have done. I also think a raise is better than a fold on the turn because you can fold out the other dude and show down if you want.

[n.s.]

All - thanks for the input. I guess I was giving the old guy too much credit when he check-raised the field, or maybe it was a feel thing that doesn't translate well in my post.

Anyways, results: <font color="white">I fold, MP calls. The river is a total blank, BB checks, MP checks. BB shows 58o for the flopped straight, MP mucks. I told you this guy was passive! </font>

[nolanfan34]

Can you talk about why you bet the flop? Based on your reads I don't really like the flop bet on that flop, given the texture and the fact it's going to hit a ton of hands that MP2 will love to raise with.