$25NL 6max - The following episode takes place in Table 398933...

[K䲰䮥n]

...between 11:30-11:36 (my time).

Should I just quit ring and go back to donkaments?

I just can't [censored] play an overpair. The only time I get my post flop bets called is when they hit their [censored] set or something. I'm waaaaaaay down with QQ, KK and AA. Help! Please!

Okay enough bitching. Here are three hands that happened within ~5 mins in the same table but against different Villains.

Villain: 20/14/3 after 70 hands...

<ul type="square">[*]Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $21.65
CO: $39.64
Button: $32.56
SB: $26.75
Hero: $28.10

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG calls, 2 folds, SB calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $1.5</font>, UTG folds, SB calls.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($3.25, 2 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $3</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $8</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises all-in $23.6</font>[/list]

Villain: 28/4/0 but only after 20 hands

<ul type="square">[*]Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $32.65
CO: $6.75
Button: $20.60
SB: $14.70
BB: $21.50

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $1</font>, 2 folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($2.25, 2 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $2</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $4</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises all-in $29.65</font>[/list]


Villain: 31/7/0 but only after 20 hands...

<ul type="square">[*]Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $36.05
CO: $25.25
Button: $25.60
Hero: $25.60
BB: $24.50

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises to $1</font>, Button calls, Hero calls, BB folds.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($3.25, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $3</font>, CO folds, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $8</font>, Hero folds (learned his lesson or was being results oriented because if what happened earlier?).[/list]

[thac]

I think hand 1 you can call and shove a safe flop (non-A, 7, 8, 3, 4 [Yeah big range but still])

Hand 2 seems fine since he's really short.

Hand 3 if you're gonna flat call pre, you are playing for a small pot only (without set). Maybe check/call flop, put it in on a safe turn.

[danicalifornia]

Well what I can see from those hands is that you are always willing to play for your whole stack with your overpairs on the flop. In hand Number 1 villain seems pretty solid and the size of his raise makes me kinda curious. He did not minraise you but did not raise enough to make this an easy lay down odds wise. I would be very suspicous when this happens. In the best case I just call and reevaluate on the turn. He told you that he likes his hand and I think you dont have any Fold Equity here.

Second hand is kinda the same. You were minraised on the flop which has a very dangerous texture... He could have a Jack and u already beat... So why do you push on the flop? Just call and see what happens on the turn.

Thing is overpairs are vulnareable but you have to make some kind of move to find out where you stand. All your villains showed you that they can beat an overpair but you still pushed... That's too aggressive in my oppinion.

Well anyways, I hope I could help you a bit.

[corsakh]

Ok. Overpair is not the issue here, understanding position is.

Hand 1) He calls a raise from SB. The only *reasonable* hands in his range would be TT-22. His raise does not immediately indicate a set, it may also be an open ended straight draw. Thats why you call. A fold to a reasonable bet on the turn is good.

Hand 2) I don't see how KK can be good on this board after a check raise. I suppose your tilting.

Hand 3) This time you can push all in. Board is nowhere as scary as in hand 1 and his range in CO is much wider than a set. I push here.

[blackize]

Hand 1 I'd call and reevaluate on the turn. The board is really coordinated so I can see taking in the turn and seeing how he reacts. If he applies heavy pressure again and you didn't hit your Q just fold.

Hand 2 Just call his raise. The only things that call your push are a J or 44 typically. If he's minraising you here he doesn't know much about betsizing so I'd call the flop and hope to get to showdown relatively cheap.

Hand 3 looks pretty close. On this board a lot of the things he raises will have you beat, but you'll also see hands like 34 and 45 and 4xs a lot. I'd probably give him credit for a hand and fold, but pushing can't be too bad here.

[K䲰䮥n]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok. Overpair is not the issue here, understanding position is.

Hand 1) He calls a raise from SB. The only *reasonable* hands in his range would be TT-22.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand position but my opponents rarely do. I'm most likely not playing against a 2p2er here and most likely villain has zero clue on position.

Even though 22-TT is the *reasonable* range it's wrong to assume that villain is playing *reasonably*. (i wonder if i spelled that right...)

[corsakh]

20/14/3 is as reasonable as it gets. Until proven otherwise.

[Knight Vision]

#1 - I think playing any differently is allowing yourself to get pwned by draws and TPTK too often. I can't imagine just calling the flop raise. I mean, if we call and SB checks the turn, what does Hero do? There are only 2 cards in the deck that Hero wants to see on the turn/river. I'd say it's push or fold, and folding is real tight at NL25.

#2 - Only not a push because a flush draw would have c/c'ed, so you'll only get called by a J or something like A4.

#3 - A fold is definitely reasonable. But 66-99 are very possible here. I don't know. Being gun-shy, I can see folding in fear. Being agro, I can see pushing and liking what he turns over. This one is close.

...but since I suck, I'd love to hear solid debates to my takes.

[keikiwai]

[ QUOTE ]


Hand 1) He calls a raise from SB. The only *reasonable* hands in his range would be TT-22.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty far off. SB overlimps, then calls an iso-raise closing the action. He got to see the first limper fold, and now he's last to act..... this is going to look very tempting w/ not only pocket pairs, but suited connectors and suited aces, and depending how much GAMBOOL he has, some other hands too.

I think hand 1 is fine.

Hand 2 I would call the flop raise. The FD is out there, but I think you have to think about what hands he calls w/ if you push. You get more value calling flop and calling turn if he bets or betting if he checks.

Hand 3, I think is close either way... not sure, I'd be interested to hear other's opinion's. You're up against a tight pfr-er, and while you're ahead of hise range, that raise is disquieting.

[K䲰䮥n]

Okay thank you all.

So far it seems that hand #3 is the most difficult one. Any other opinions on that (or other hands as well)?