Important No Limit Holdem Tourney Question

[David Sklansky]

Say the blinds are 100-200 with no ante. Your opponents are all good players with a lot more chips than you. Also we will stipulate that you are not dealt pocket aces or kings because those two hands may be an exception to what I am about to ask.

My question is about how small your stack can be so that you are not in fold and push mode. (Another exception which I am NOT considering here is when you are head up in the big blind and call a raise planning to push on the flop regardless.)

Here is a specific situation. An early position player opens for 600. A middle position player calls. You are in the cutoff seat. How big a stack do you need where you would consider the play of just calling with some hands, as opposed to either folding or pushing? Remember that we are scratching aces or kings from this question. With those hands a slowplay call or even a less than push raise may be right. Also, which hands would you consider making this play of just calling when you have this barely big enough stack.

How would your answer change if there is also a $25 ante?

[supernick24]

i would need at least 3600 to call here. i would probably call here with QJ or Q10 suited

[supernick24]

with a 25 ante, maybe 5000

[leaponthis]

A. [ QUOTE ]
Say the blinds are 100-200 with no ante....My question is about how small your stack can be so that you are not in fold and push mode.

[/ QUOTE ]

2000.

B. [ QUOTE ]
Here is a specific situation. An early position player opens for 600. A middle position player calls. You are in the cutoff seat. How big a stack do you need where you would consider the play of just calling with some hands, as opposed to either folding or pushing?

[/ QUOTE ]

4000

[ QUOTE ]
How would your answer change if there is also a $25 ante?

[/ QUOTE ]

A. 2200

B. 4200

In both instances I would like to have at least twice the pot on the flop to somewhat protect my hand with a move in.

leaponthis

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
(Another exception which I am NOT considering here is when you are head up in the big blind and call a raise planning to push on the flop regardless.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Tysen Streib published an article on the 2+2 magazine suggesting that this play proved not to be worthwhile in the circumstances he looked at.

When do you think this is would be a good move?

[NeilDiamond]

I would want around 3000-3500 without an ante, and around 3300-3800 with an ante.

[Phanekim]

100 + 200 + 600 + 600 + 600 = 2100 (pot size going into flop)

2100...assume someone bets out....1200. thats 3300. I would like to pot with my straight flush draw or high equity flush draw. so...3300. Reason I want more chips is because its higher +EV cause I might get him to fold.

So i need 600 to get in. 3300 to pot it. So approximately 4k - 5k. This range is due to the uncertain flop bet amount 1.2k or he pots it 2.1k. (slightly higher with antes)...I'd say 6.5k-7.5k or even more because that might induce more bluffing and stabs at pots. You would need higher stack to have any sort of hope that the reraise will get you some fold equity.

Forgive me if i didn't think this thouroghly...its 4 am.

[Jeff76]

With blinds of 100/200, I would have to have more than 3K to flat call a raise. With an added Ante of 25, this would probably change to about 5K.

[bsheck]

$3000, or 10 times the pot. With a $25 ante (assuming 9-handed), $5250. Basically you would need to be in the "Yellow Zone" where you're not in push-or-fold mode.

[leaponthis]

[ QUOTE ]
In fact, in most of the big pots I played I was at least an 85% favorite to win. That’s how small ball works.


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Can Daniel be correct here? At least an 85% favorite to win in most big pots?

leaponthis