Live 5/10 Hand

[Christian_Peters]

I recently got into an argument over the correct way to play a hand with a friend of mine who is much better than me at limit hold'em. I would like to confirm the accuracy of my reasoning or correct it accordingly.

We were at the same table while he was waiting for 10/20 to open up. Only been at the table for about two orbits. It's folded to him in middle position and he raises w/ AJo. It's folded to the Big Blind, who seems to be a little over aggressive and there is a reasonible chance he has made "a play" since we have been at the table, i.e. hand was not shown down, but there is a reasonable chance given the way the hand was played that villain was bluffing HU. He also calls raises with a huge range of hands - basically any connectors, many suited hands, any pair, two big cards, etc. So, he calls in the BB.

Flop comes 644r. My friend bets his overs and is called. Turn comes 8. Villain checks.

Given the read that this guy is capable of bluffing, although the read is fairly limited, what is the correct play?

I say it is to check.
My friend says it is to bet.

My reasoning is as follows:
1. You have Ace high
2. If you are behind, you may have as many as 6 outs, making a c/r more devistating.
3. Villain may be capable of c/r the turn as a total or semi-bluff.
4. If villain is very bluff happy, it is better to check and induce a bluff on the river, which you can snap off if you hit one of your outs, or even consider calling w/ ace high.

His reasoning is as follows:
1. I don't want to give a free card to villain to beat me.
2. Many small stakes players call on the flop in this situation w/ anything and when they fail to make a pair or pick up a draw.


Basically, what happened was that my friend bet and villain insta-check raised. He actually thought his read was good enough on this villain to call him down with Ace-high. My friend said something like "every fiber in my being told me to call there. It was the obvious 'act strong because you're weak.'" But I think he is being results oriented because after he folded, BB showed a total bluff.

Although we really got into two seperate arguments over this hand, I would really like to know how the turn should be played initially, i.e. given the read on villain, is it better to check the turn to get a free card, or bet the turn to prevent giving a free card to any non-pair holdings?????

Thanks,
any advice much appreciated
Christian

[tiltaholic]

i'd bet.

edit: i didn't read the bottom of your post but your friend's 2 reasons are exactly why i would bet.

[Christian_Peters]

[ QUOTE ]
i'd bet.

edit: i didn't read the bottom of your post but your friend's 2 reasons are exactly why i would bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

damn. ok. So, would you say that in general, HU against a weak opponent on boards that are relatively dry, you should c-bet the Turn w/ your unimproved overs????

thanks
-c

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'd bet.

edit: i didn't read the bottom of your post but your friend's 2 reasons are exactly why i would bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

damn. ok. So, would you say that in general, HU against a weak opponent on boards that are relatively dry, you should c-bet the Turn w/ your unimproved overs????

thanks
-c

[/ QUOTE ]

in short yes. in my experience, the weak people who will call the flop and fold the turn vastly outnumber those who are capable of bluff checkraising the turn. most of the time in a live 5/10 game that turn check raise is trips.

[bozlax]

Meh, it's not a big swing either way. If your friend was so sure in his read, tho, why did he fold? I would say he's definitely being results-oriented, and also has the common mid-stakes, "small stakes players are all donks and fish," attitude.

[tyler_cracker]

Against most opponents, i bet.

Against this guy, i check. Btw, by checking here you commit yourself to calling the river 100%. There is no "consider calling w/ ace high."

[BigBadBabar]

it's not a huge difference either way. it depends on reads, texture of the game, your image, and a ton of other things.

[Shillx]

On the turn the pot is 3 BB. It will cost the other guy 2 BB to calldown so he is getting 5:2. That means that you should have unpaired overcards roughly 2 out of 7 of the times that you bet the turn. Obviously it is also player dependant (and dependant on some other things) but the right answer is to sometimes bet and sometimes check. In this case I think you should check more then game theory would suggest.