Dealer mucks hand, what's the correct ruling?

[The Riz]

Playing at Majestic Star in Gary, IN last night. Guy raises to $50 preflop. I pushed all in. He called, and everyone heard him call, except for the dealer, who somehow thought he said fold, and grabbed his cards and pushed them into the muck. Two of the players kept their eyes on the cards and knew which two they were in the muck pile.

The floor was called. What should their ruling have been?

[Ignignokt]

I'm going to guess that if (1) caller can ID the cards, and (2) the cards are readily identifiable, the muck is ruled to be non-magic.

Then caller gets kicked in the nuts for not protecting his hand.

[jiac]

Most rooms consider the hand dead once it touches the muck, I watched my friend get a nut straight taken away from him by the dealer in a huge pot...

[KenProspero]

Roberts Rules of Poker:

Dead Hands -- Rule 2.

Cards thrown into the muck may be ruled dead. However, a hand that is clearly identifiable may be retrieved at management’s discretion if doing so is in the best interest of the game. We will make an extra effort to rule a hand retrievable if it was folded as a result of incorrect information given to the player.

Irregularities -- Rule 2

You must protect your own hand at all times. Your cards may be protected with your hands, a chip, or other object placed on top of them. If you fail to protect your hand, you will have no redress if it becomes fouled or the dealer accidentally kills it.


So, to answer your question -- whatever the floor did was correct.

[bav]

In this case, if two players are sure they have the cards spotted, and the player can tell us what they are, I'd let 'em play. Since everybody is all-in, he can just tell the whole table "ace of spades, king of diamonds" and if those two pop out of the muck, let 'em play. That would be covered in the rules under the clause that lets the floor making rulings to be fair, regardless what the letter of the rules say.

If the cards are not identifiable, he's out $50. I'm not making him put in all of his chips without cards to play. And I have no huge qualms about a floor ruling his hand is dead and he's out $50 even though two people at the table claim to know which are his cards. I just prefer letting the cards come out if they can be positively identified.

[bernie]

If they ruled his hand dead, I'd give him his money back.

Unless this was the 2nd or 3rd time it's happened.

b

[PantsOnFire]

[ QUOTE ]
So, to answer your question -- whatever the floor did was correct.

[/ QUOTE ]
And I'm not agreeing with this to be facetious. The hand ended, guy who pushed in takes the pot. Anything after that is a discretionary overrulling by the house that is neither correct nor incorrect.

[PantsOnFire]

See KenProspero's answer.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
Most rooms consider the hand dead once it touches the muck, I watched my friend get a nut straight taken away from him by the dealer in a huge pot...

[/ QUOTE ]

When ever I see this I feel obligated to reply as it is the biggest misconception in poker. There is nothing magical abotu the muck that kills hands that touch it. There are a few rooms that are managed by people that have never been in a real poker room that think this is a rule so they make it a rule in their room.