Rivered Ace

hedgetop · #1 01-09-2007, 01:53 PM

SB is 65/12/0.8 UTG is 14/12/1.3

Despite being a bit of a trad, the SB cc seems like a lot of strength, epecically with the 7 showing up. This is somewhat countered by the 3rd player who is definetly behind, I think there is a fair chance UTG would call a raise with a weaker A.

Party Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $10/$20
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG raises, CO folds, Hero 3-bets, SB calls, BB calls, UTG caps, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (16SB, 4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (11BB, 3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (11BB, 3 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: 14BB

DrewOnTilt · #2 01-10-2007, 12:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
SB is 65/12/0.8 UTG is 14/12/1.3

Despite being a bit of a trad, the SB cc seems like a lot of strength, epecically with the 7 showing up. This is somewhat countered by the 3rd player who is definetly behind, I think there is a fair chance UTG would call a raise with a weaker A.

Party Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $10/$20
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG raises, CO folds, Hero 3-bets, SB calls, BB calls, UTG caps, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (16SB, 4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (11BB, 3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (11BB, 3 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: 14BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Please explain why you raised the flop. That is a horrible board for your hand. On top of that, UTG has shown no hatred for his hand thus far.

In order to win here,

1) UTG must have a worse Ace or KQ
2) the others in the hand must have not flopped any kind of a pair
3) you must catch up if UTG has 88-QQ
4) you must dodge draws.

Do you really think that any of the above will hold true? I don't. I think that you can peel here given the pot size, but raising is spew.

Call the river, the way you played.

wackjob · #3 01-10-2007, 04:52 AM

drew hit it right on. flop raise is dumb, river call is a must.

goofball · #4 01-10-2007, 08:19 AM

I think raising is better then calling. The pot is huge already, get people to fold and give yourself a shot at checking behind on the turn.

inferno · #5 01-10-2007, 09:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think raising is better then calling. The pot is huge already, get people to fold and give yourself a shot at checking behind on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this

mvoss · #6 01-10-2007, 11:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think raising is better then calling. The pot is huge already, get people to fold and give yourself a shot at checking behind on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are likely behind and people aren't folding anything you'd like them to fold IMO, I think calling is better.

goofball · #7 01-10-2007, 02:13 PM

In a pot this size you'd like them to fold almost anything given your holding.

mvoss · #8 01-10-2007, 03:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In a pot this size you'd like them to fold almost anything given your holding.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't understand this, could you please explain what they will fold and why it's a good thing?

DrewOnTilt · #9 01-11-2007, 09:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
In a pot this size you'd like them to fold almost anything given your holding.

[/ QUOTE ]

Goofball I know that you've got game, but I have to disagree with you here. You do realize that the pot is so big that even facing the field with a double bet still gives gutshots and weak overs the correct odds to call?

We have A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
The board is 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

We are 4 handed, UTG has bet into us and we're getting 17:1 but we have no pair and no draw whatsoever. If we had a backdoor flush draw or if the hand was headsup then I might agree with the argument for raising the flop.

Bad players, as stupid as they are, instinctively know that it is correct to chase weak draws in big pots. Anyone with a draw of any kind or a pair regardless of the kicker will call due to the pot size, and they will be right to do so.

Genesis · #10 01-11-2007, 02:29 PM

Reasons why I would consider raising this flop:

-It's not out of the question that we may have the best hand here.

-Raising and getting hands such as Kx or Ax, who could otherwise draw profitably if we call, to fold is beneficial.

-A free turn card could be quite valuable.

-If we are ahead we may be able to fold out other unpaired hands who fear an overpair or domination, JT, QJ, etc.